New 2019 type 56 imports at Classic tracking thread

[Phosphorus32]

I consider the 14 million guns C&R. They're 50 years old by calendar year of manufacture, which is as precise as the law says you need to be. Personal opinion, not official SKS Files guidance.

If the 14mil was granted status using the modern dating theory, then there is argument enough that 1969 d.o.m. would qualify for C&R.

However the 1.5mill gun indicates that the modern theory was NOT used.

In fact the arrival of both 14th and 15th year guns carries the suggestion that NEITHER dating method was used. This C&R batch may have come through on a Curio Request.

Yeah, I was just commenting generally that I would accept a 14 million on my C&R license and list it in my FFL-03 book.

[Greasemonkey]

In fact the arrival of both 14th and 15th year guns carries the suggestion that NEITHER dating method was used. This C&R batch may have come through on a Curio Request.

Like I said......... give the ATF due time    Let them cypher through all the social media, 4473's and forums....if there are ones they don't like or suit their policies, don't think for a hot minute those remaining rifles in vendors inventory won't vanish from existence and be quickly turned in to a Prius.

Again.. remember those Russians they swiped up from the last batch, they aren't shy about it. You keep banging the drum of they did this or that, and thats what allowed them in, which this early in the game is pointless in my opinion, it hasn't even been a week since the 'ol Blubber Nugget threw them up for sale. Do you know for a fact under which definition they were imported under, be it a Curio or the Relic determination? Did or have you called the ATF to verify this information? Dealing with a government agency, especially a card carrying member of the tax paid Alphabet Klan, never assume!!! They may be a little slow on the take up, but when they move, they are quick and ruthless.

I'm sure they, being the BATFE did or do not see or examine every rifle or serial number, they don't have that much man power to check thousands of rifles, besides, they can get a bead on whats being sold through serials listed on 4473's(some people don't have C&R licenses) and social media. If they did examine every rifle, they should have caught and eradicated those previously mentioned Russians that entered before they even hit the market, and no one would have ever knew about them entering.

[running-man]

Considering we don't have a single photos of one of these up on this site yet (I know there are several up on gunboards), I think everyone here is jumping the gun regarding what the importer/exporter/AFT did or didn't do and what XYZ knows or doesn't know.  There can be zero final conclusions drawn at this point in time except to say that a new batch of C&R type 56 carbines has been allowed in and classic is selling them for $419 + various handpick fees. 

We have no idea what criteria was used to import these carbines under the C&R allowance for importation of surplus military arms.  GM is 100% correct in that ATF is well known to allow certain things only to disallow them later on when they are made aware of more data.  It does nobody in the collecting community any favors to make absolute statements on this first trickle of guns and get everybody in the collecting community worked up when we simply don't know many of the details yet. 

We can say that based on our current dating system, the year 15 guns should not be deemed 50 years old as of March, 2019.  We can debate whether a year 14 gun built in late 1969 that is 49 years and 30 days can be considered/assumed to be 50 years old or not, but ultimately this will not be known until a definitive ruling is made on this specific question by the ATF Firearms Technology Branch. 

Any year 14+ guns in this import are not "sneaks" as we cannot say at this point in time that they were illicitly imported.  This differs tremendously from the Russian Sneaks of the '14 Sino-Banian import as the VRA is crystal clear and there is simply no way around it...

[Boris Badinov]

Any standard configuration Type 56 from Albania is completely  legal to import to the US after 5 years in storage.

The only.thing that would vary is C&R eligibility.

No?

I'm not a betting man. But I'm optimistic that the 14th and 15th year arrivals signals a new era in SKS C&R collecting. Sure, well have to wait and see.

But I highly doubt there will be any dawn raids on shops and homes over arms that were imported 100% above the line.

[Greasemonkey]

Wasn't any black suvs, guys scaling buildings in tactical gear or raids last time..no one who bought one retail was required to turn them over or arrested.

It's simple and quiet for a vendor, a warrant is served, a cease and desist order probably gets issued after an audit, they probably get a friendly reminder your shut down and going to jail for non compliance. After which, they take possession of the contraband as it gets uncrated.

Would I put a 15million or a 1.5 million Chinese in my bound book... nope. Unless it included a letter wrapped around it's greasy arse butt stock stating it had been approved by the ATF as C&R. I don't give a damn if it has a big flashing C&R icon on any website.. show me unadulterated proof.  Just give the boys who police my 3 favorite things on the planet(Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms) time do their job..

The only.thing that would vary is C&R eligibility.
No?

In the grand scheme of things, Does it really matter? Is it really that much of a life changing experience to go screaming from the mountain tops about whether or not was the "C" or the "R" they were imported under? Last time I checked, the C&R license covered either the "C" part, or the "R" part, and or both, nothing has really changed after 5 renewals.


To be honest... looking at whats showing up, tells me....... Classic hasn't changed, same sh%t, different year and owner, that $20 hand picked is, pick it up and throw it in a shipping box, the same exact thing they do when your don't order hand picked. 15 years of having a C&R.....and over that dealing with this surplus stuff, what is coming from them crates thus far, to me is gun smith specials being sold at nice shooter prices, inflated prices at that. Goes to prove you can rub and smear grease all over anything, call it surplus and it will sell. 


Truthfully..... the ATF may just show some pity on this bunch..... cause it seriously, looks nothing more than greasy junk...  I'm not saying there is not some good ones.. but I'd be a little pissed if I paid all that dough, figure half a grand after shipping and the bonus features, and got a greasy turd packed in bubble wrap. I could go to my LGS with the same 500 bucks, do the 4473(it says Norinco on it) and walk out with a spiked SKS they have with a bandoleer, a hand full of strippers and 120rds of Brown Bear and still have enough change left to hit up the local choke and puke down the street.

[Direct Connection]

What does choke and puke down the street mean ?  .. I guess im late to the Classic findings. But For the guy in silicon valley who never changed a tire in his life and has just discovered he has testosterone and is dying to get his hands dirty, this could be a good start for him buying his first SkS. 

[Boris Badinov]

This classic howed up on another site.

Huge stock splinter on the right receiver (looked recent) and  this DIY sling swivel held in place with a nail.

[Loose}{Cannon]

This classic howed up on another site.

Huge stock splinter on the right receiver (looked recent) and  this DIY sling swivel held in place with a nail.

How much extra was that option?

[Boris Badinov]

No hand select on this one

But it was ordered on the first day of the sale.

[Greasemonkey]

What does choke and puke down the street mean ?  .. I guess im late to the Classic findings. But For the guy in silicon valley who never changed a tire in his life and has just discovered he has testosterone and is dying to get his hands dirty, this could be a good start for him buying his first SkS.

A mom and pop kinda greasy spoon restaurant.. kinda place where all the locals frequent to catch up on everything..........local.

Them sorry silicon valley types really need to get out more and rely less on everyone else to change their tires. Their testosterone comes in a bottle from GNC

[Boris Badinov]

I consider the 14 million guns C&R. They're 50 years old by calendar year of manufacture, which is as precise as the law says you need to be. Personal opinion, not official SKS Files guidance.

Could this be a blurry 10mil serial? I see at least two serif 7's.

I havent seen a lot if 14mils, but I think the serif 7's were abandoned in 12th or 13 year.
No?

[Greasemonkey]

Maybe instead of worring with or sweating over individual serials, the whole lot could be looked at as being in Albania for at least 50years. That would or could negate serial dating and dating methods could be ignored for simplicity.  Even if some were from 1970, the whole imported lot in general could have been there 50+ years, regardless if it was in use or in storage.

Since China hasn't released any production stuff, just deem the whole lot 50 years old.. it works for a 1970 Albanian.. why not cut out the middle garbage and apply the same rule to a 1970 Chinese.. it's close enough for government work..

OMG...50  I suddenly feel old. Damn, I'm almost C&R.

[Direct Connection]

 Hey LC do you have any 3X SkS files Tees laying around ?  Looks like Ben has had a long winter.

[running-man]

Any standard configuration Type 56 from Albania is completely  legal to import to the US after 5 years in storage.
The only.thing that would vary is C&R eligibility.
No?
I'm not a betting man. But I'm optimistic that the 14th and 15th year arrivals signals a new era in SKS C&R collecting. Sure, well have to wait and see.
But I highly doubt there will be any dawn raids on shops and homes over arms that were imported 100% above the line.

Unfortunately this is not right.  You're confusing two very different potions of the law here.
The easy part is the '5 year rule'.  This rule stems from §447.52, specifically part (e)(2), and applies to firearms manufactured in proscribed countries (which in this case is China):

(e) Applications for permits to import articles that were manufactured in, or have been in, a country or area proscribed under this section may be approved where the articles are covered by Category I(a) of the Import List (other than those subject to the provisions of 27 CFR Part 479), are importable as curios or relics under the provisions of 27 CFR 478.118, and meet the following criteria:

(1) The articles were manufactured in a proscribed country or area prior to the date, as established by the Department of State, the country or area became proscribed, or, were manufactured in a non-proscribed country or area; and

(2) The articles have been stored for the five year period immediately prior to importation in a non-proscribed country or area.

Note the area I highlighted in red.  We are not concerned with looking at 27 CFR Part 479 because that pertains to NFA covered items (machine guns and destructive devices), and a semi-automatic SKS does not fall into that category. 

We are concerned with 27 CFR 478, however.  In §478.112: Importation by a licensed importer, we get to the crux of the matter in section (D):

(D) If a firearm other than a surplus military firearm, of a type that does not fall within the definition of a firearm under section 5845(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, and is for sporting purposes, an explanation of why the firearm is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes;

Note that I've highlighted "other than a surplus military firearm" in green.  This section is presumably what allows all, non-military firearms the ability to be imported into the US per the ATF's  'sporting rules'.  But what about 'surplus military firearms', how can they be imported?  Let's go back to part (A) of §478.112 and see what can be imported:

(a) No firearm, firearm barrel, or ammunition shall be imported or brought into the United States by a licensed importer (as defined in §478.11) unless the Director has authorized the importation of the firearm, firearm barrel, or ammunition.

So it appears that the Director of the ATF 100% makes this call.  In this day and age, you'd think he would simply deny as many import applications as possible, and indeed that is what seems to be occurring with all "surplus military firearms" because these are mainly 'non-sporting firearms' and ATF does not allow the import of 'non-sporting firearms'.  There is an interesting facet of the law that forces the director's hand, and that the curio and relic importation provision of §478.118

Notwithstanding any other provision of this part, a licensed importer may import all rifles and shotguns classified by the Director as curios or relics,

Note the orange text.  Full stop, do not pass go, do not collect $200.  C&R classified rifles and shotguns do not need to be 'sporting' guns to be imported per this law.  So if you can prove it's a C&R rifle, you can import it, plain and simple.  Handguns are a totally different story and are covered specifically in §478.118 with specialized 'sporting' rules applied to them.

So how does all this pertain to our favorite SKS carbine.  Here's my take (you opinion may vary):

• If the SKS was not a C&R item, it would not currently be importable per the sporting rules.
• Back in the 80's and early 90's before the adoption of the AWB, sporting rules did not exist in their current form.  This is how all the early Chinese imports were able to come to market.  It's interesting to see the progression of limitations the government placed on these as times passed.  The Clayco M8s w/o bayos came in first perhaps testing the waters and seeing how the ATF would react to SKS imports.  Then the floodgates opened (possibly with a law change or a simple reinterpretation) and the floodgates opened with mass importation.  Then we see bayos removed, then entire bayo lugs removed, then the AWB immediately followed by the Nornco ban which for all intents and purposes, combined with every other law and interpretation of the law has effectively closed the door to any Chinese type 56 coming in en masse again.
• Any new import batch of SKSs, whatever the flavor, will be C&R, period.  New production SKSs in traditional form with bayonets will never pass the current 'sporting rules', and are not importable in my opinion.  We actually have an excellent example of this in recent memory that we can draw upon: the infamous IO 500.  This was a batch of new Yugo M59/66s that Zastava cranked out for InterOrdinance back around the turn of the century.  500 guns were imported and 250 of them were sold at retail before the ATF stepped in and confiscated the remainder.  They claimed that this was an illegal import because the guns were newly made and did not fit into the definition of the Yugoslavian M59/66 in ATF Publication 5300.11 which calls out "Yugoslavian manufactured rifles M59 and M59/66, cal. 7.62 x 39mm, all semiautomatic variations having a fixed magazine, manufactured from 1947-1992."  Recall the Yugo M59/66 is a C&R because of its inclusion in that publication (from categories 2 & 3 of the C&R Categories not because of category 1, the 50 year old rule.)  These IO 500 M59/66s built after 1992 simply will not be C&R until 2043+ and these guns are still not importable to this day which is a shame because Zastava continues to crank these out.
• New production SKSs out of China will not be allowed because of a multitude of issues.  Non-C&R status being the main one with the the Norinco ban being another, There is also a China wide ban that stems from being a proscribed country.  Any SKS that was built in China after 1994 (the year China became a proscribed country) is disallowed specifically by the law (§447.52) that gives us the 5 year rule.  These reasons are why we don't see imports of new production Chinese SKSs coming over the border in legal imports from Canada by the way...

[Loose}{Cannon]

You scare me

[running-man]

To easy to go off the rails if you don't know your stuff man...

These guns were likely piggybacked off the previous imports from 7 years ago and imported via the old 1956 + millions serial number, so it is unlikely there will be year 14 numbers in this lot, 50 years from 2019 = 1969.  1956+13 = 1969.  The year 15 guns have been mistakenly ID'd as year 1 guns and allowed in  IMO but those are bound to be a pretty small portion of these guns based on what we know about the production numbers that year.   

[Direct Connection]

You scare me

RM's like an old Timex... bu

[Loose}{Cannon]

Ole Ben needs a new advertising strategy.   

[Boris Badinov]

A very long read, rm.

But well worth it. I had to read it twice all the way through, and  then parts of it multiple times to be certain.

Thank you for the epic clarification.

[jaroslav]

To easy to go off the rails if you don't know your stuff man...

These guns were likely piggybacked off the previous imports from 7 years ago and imported via the old 1956 + millions serial number, so it is unlikely there will be year 14 numbers in this lot, 50 years from 2019 = 1969.  1956+13 = 1969.  The year 15 guns have been mistakenly ID'd as year 1 guns and allowed in  IMO but those are bound to be a pretty small portion of these guns based on what we know about the production numbers that year.   

I'm confused with Chinese dating. You say 1956 +13= 1969. Other members count 1955+13=1968.