1950 SKS with spike bayonet

[jstin2]

On CGN in Red, It was asked about cover having lightening holes. Thought was that it was from a letter series blank cover, only problem is that pin hole is for a early 49-50 carbine due to pin hole. One keen observer noted that the lightening holes were not evenly spaced like the late models. This could show that these holes were drilled at refurb. Why, who knows.

[Justin Hell]

On CGN in Red, It was asked about cover having lightening holes. Thought was that it was from a letter series blank cover, only problem is that pin hole is for a early 49-50 carbine due to pin hole. One keen observer noted that the lightening holes were not evenly spaced like the late models. This could show that these holes were drilled at refurb. Why, who knows.

Interesting.
The small retaining pin hole should be a dead giveaway about it's years of early service.
If I was near my 49 and 50 cover I would look...but I am 99% sure neither have the lightening holes.

I also find the miniscule amounts of lightening to be inconsequential...across the lot of parts that initially had them, and later the idea was discarded?  One would think that it was for lightening, it would be something they came up with later.   It seems like a pain in the neck to do that to the FSB, RSB, bolt carrier...and later the tiny holes in the cover too? Why?  To save a total of maybe a very generous half ounce of metal?

Something I wonder...are the SKSs with the bluing wear band across the center of the cover the ones with or without these little holes?  Perhaps it had something to do with these holes and the bluing process?

The Chinese were as frugal as any SKS manufacturer....why would they choose to unlighten parts as they slowly degraded production? It certainly couldn't have been a cost saving measure...other than in labor.  All Yugos into the 80s still exhibit bolt carrier lightening cuts...and they at least put a part number in there....nobody else used that as a placard. Seems like a monumental painus to even bother putting it there at all on the bazillions that had them initially....the shavings, added to the tooling waste would add up to what, a bazzilon and a dozen after reclaimation?

Why are there lightening cuts at all....particularly in receiver covers...if that even is what they are?

[Loose}{Cannon]

I guess I dont follow the russians that closely.  Can someone post pictures of these 'lightening holes' in the cover?

[Boris Badinov]

I guess I dont follow the russians that closely.  Can someone post pictures of these 'lightening holes' in the cover?

https://ibb.co/nzshgG

[Loose}{Cannon]

No wonder I didn't know what you guys were talking about.  Why are these holes considered to be for the purpose of "lightening"?

[Boris Badinov]

No wonder I didn't know what you guys were talking about.  Why are these holes considered to be for the purpose of "lightening"?

I asked myself the same question yesterday. As I have long thought they were weight reduction related.

But it occured to me that they might have something to do with the production process-- i.e. holes for mounting on hooks while cooling or for drying after rebluing or painting?

[Loose}{Cannon]

They 'could' be for anything, but the furthest from my mind is for lightening.   

Other aspects of the sks considered to be done for lightening are much more obvious of their purpose. These holes, not so much.

[Justin Hell]

It would seem more likely to do with the production process...and it seems like the term lightening makes little sense since all the parts on early guns were lightened by what must be totally inconsequential weight vs making the process more complicated.  One would think if it was for lightening...it would have come later rather than sooner.

The cover holes I suspect had something to do with ensuring the bluing was strong inside the takedown lever hole perhaps?  I have wondered about that weird band some covers got where the bluing well, stupid lack of a better term....lightened.  I have tried to figure out what causes that..it seems unlikely that it would be heat, since that doesn't get hot...and it is so uniform, like it had a band aid on during part of the bluing process.  I wonder if that was resolved by adding the holes, perhaps at refurb they were manually added if they aren't uniform?

I just checked my unrefurbished 49 cover, no holes....and despite extensive stripping to the white and rebluing...AND only firing it ten times...I just noticed that it is developing that band?!  I can't find my early 50 refurb cover though...or most of my covers...as most of my guns are scoped. The box with the original parts is AWOL somewhere in my gun room...under a bunch of my daughters crap. I wanted to check about a half dozen...especially the 50. 

I also discovered my looped takedown pin somehow has lost it's pin....as in vanished. It must have fallen out during handling and found it's way out of the trigger? 

[Loose}{Cannon]

For what its worth...

My explanation for the light strip across the top of covers is a result of the manufacturing process of the cover. The cover would be forged into shape under extreme pressure. This pressure may have a effected the area as to not easily accept the bluing as well as the surrounding areas.

In similar fashion, it could have been heat treated lying upside down in a tray that supported them in the affected area and the temp deviation ultimately effected the area as to not easily accept the bluing as well as the surrounding areas.

[Greasemonkey]

It would seem more likely to do with the production process...and it seems like the term lightening makes little sense since all the parts on early guns were lightened by what must be totally inconsequential weight vs making the process more complicated.  One would think if it was for lightening...it would have come later rather than sooner.

My question... if nations were so concerned with weight reduction, dropping an 1/8 of an ounce here, a 1/4 ounce there.. why would Russia switch to a laminate stock, thats a hair heavier than a hardwood stock? Ok, it's stronger, but more dense, and slightly heavier. NK and EG used laminates too, like Russia. Why would Yugoslavia use a heavy elm stock, then later in production, add on a pound of grenade launching hardware? Why would Albania add a smidge of extra weight with the larger style hand guard and slightly longer stock?

my opinion  I agree... it wasn't weight they were after.. some other driving force was behind it. Lighter materials were available then... like the phenolic stocks on a Vz58.. lighter and stronger than wood, if a little nation like Czechoslovakia could do it, why didn't everyone if weight was a big factor??

[Justin Hell]

For what its worth...

My explanation for the light strip across the top of covers is a result of the manufacturing process of the cover. The cover would be forged into shape under extreme pressure. This pressure may have a effected the area as to not easily accept the bluing as well as the surrounding areas.

In similar fashion, it could have been heat treated lying upside down in a tray that supported them in the affected area and the temp deviation ultimately effected the area as to not easily accept the bluing as well as the surrounding areas.

Hmmm...interesting point.  Something I don't have enough experience looking for, but do we see this on all nationalities and eras?  That also is the area where Russians would have had their stars and dates...perhaps the area is hardened differently?  That would indicate a lot of Russian surplus if it is limited to earlyish Chinese...and anyone else obtaining Russian aid.  MUST find that dang box!

[Justin Hell]

It would seem more likely to do with the production process...and it seems like the term lightening makes little sense since all the parts on early guns were lightened by what must be totally inconsequential weight vs making the process more complicated.  One would think if it was for lightening...it would have come later rather than sooner.

My question... if nations were so concerned with weight reduction, dropping an 1/8 of an ounce here, a 1/4 ounce there.. why would Russia switch to a laminate stock, thats a hair heavier than a hardwood stock? Ok, it's stronger, but more dense, and slightly heavier. NK and EG used laminates too, like Russia. Why would Yugoslavia use a heavy elm stock, then later in production, add on a pound of grenade launching hardware? Why would Albania add a smidge of extra weight with the larger style hand guard and slightly longer stock?

my opinion  I agree... it wasn't weight they were after.. some other driving force was behind it. Lighter materials were available then... like the phenolic stocks on a Vz58.. lighter and stronger than wood, if a little nation like Czechoslovakia could do it, why didn't everyone if weight was a big factor??

Agreed...there should be a method to the madness. I thought perhaps shaving a little off the carrier would help with balance and how hard it closes home...but altering the spring would at least cover the latter.  The amount removed seems inconsequential regardless. Perhaps it was the original idea for a place to serial instead of the stripper guide area?  The Yugoslavians used it for part numbers.  As haggard as the tooling marks usually are there, it seems pretty labor intensive, and not anything to do with the machining process.

The FSB I can only speculate that perhaps they had an armorers tool that would lock in there, since it is the only two flat surfaces for easier sight adjustment? Those tools we have now are not exactly what the doctor ordered...

The reduction in the RSB seems to have intensified labor, saved considerably more material and weight, but the only two things I can think of would be for easier removal...should a barrel need to be replaced...or perhaps to affect barrel harmonics?  It is the most weight saved, but still very little.

Ease of assembly, maintenance and repair explain two out of three....the carrier is a little tougher to explain. At least Yugoslavia figured out a use for it.

[Greasemonkey]

Some Romanians have numbers stamped in the cut on the carrier.. all of mine do, and it's not serial numbers. 2 of the carrier numbers, the oddball numbers match another set of numbers on the bolt, which is kind of redundant because both have serial numbers.

[Loose}{Cannon]

I thought perhaps shaving a little off the carrier would help with balance and how hard it closes home...but altering the spring would at least cover the latter

If you ask LC....

He would say these old assertions of 'lightening' of the carrrier made by know-it-all bobbleheads were incorrect.  It makes more sense that these carrier cuts give debris a place to go rather then bind the action.

[Justin Hell]

I thought perhaps shaving a little off the carrier would help with balance and how hard it closes home...but altering the spring would at least cover the latter

If you ask LC....

He would say these old assertions of 'lightening' of the carrrier made by know-it-all bobbleheads were incorrect.  It makes more sense that these carrier cuts give debris a place to go rather then bind the action.

If we can determine if that is correct...and that our receivers were originally designed to fart, we are gonna need a new term for that. 
It could make for a fun test to shoot 100 rounds of the same ammo through one with and one without and see just how filthy the innards are between the two....trigger time excuse?  'But honey, it's for research...."

[Loose}{Cannon]

Im not thinking shooting crud....  Im talking, mud, grass, sticks, rice, body parts.  Something foreign coming into the sliding action from the outside.

[Justin Hell]

Im not thinking shooting crud....  Im talking, mud, grass, sticks, rice, body parts.  Something foreign coming into the sliding action from the outside.

Carrier Blood Groove? 

[Boris Badinov]

If we can determine if that is correct...and that our receivers were originally designed to fart, we are gonna need a new term for that. 

Butt-hole is already taken: oddly enough where we put the cleaning kit.

[Boris Badinov]

Im not thinking shooting crud....  Im talking, mud, grass, sticks, rice, body parts.  Something foreign coming into the sliding action from the outside.

Along these lines, you could open the action and pour boiling hot water into the action. The holes in the covers would allow smaller grit and debris that accumlates in the cover recess to drain into the action and out throught he trigger assmebly.

Just a thought that occured to me when I recalled the pics of the Chinese soldier washing NIB type 56s with boiling water in a wok over a hot fire.

[jstin2]

Added 3 pictures of trigger to the pictures my daughter took. Before there was only one with magazine, none by itself showing S/N.

https://ibb.co/album/kP3zJv