Author Topic: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet  (Read 41228 times)

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Offline jstin2

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1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« on: October 13, 2017, 10:10:55 PM »
I bought a 1950 SKS with spike bayonet, 90 degree gas port and eyelet latch pin. It has matching S/N and stock is laminate with no markings. Westrifle had 10 - 49s for sale. Last one was listed as a 1950(same price). I have posted it on Survivors forum, but would like additional input.
Pictures at

https://ibb.co/album/mQ5tBF

https://ibb.co/album/kP3zJv
First set of pictures were taken by me and the latter(better) by my daughter.

Offline newchi

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2017, 10:52:26 PM »
I think we just found the official board photographer.
 clap1

Offline running-man

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2017, 11:41:14 PM »
Welcome to the files jstin, glad to have you here!  thumb1

Boris Badinov and I have been PM'ing about this gun over the past few days.  It's an interesting specimen, very interesting indeed.  Unfortunately, the Westrifle connection causes me great pause in taking everything on it at face value.  They have been known to embellish their SKSs with non-original stampings such as these gems (yes that 4th one down does say "1956" on it! rofl2):






and my personal favorites, the laminates with 'original' '49 cartouches!



So assuming that there are features of the Westrifle gun that are legit and others that are not, I would say that you likely have a '49 with a scrubbed cover that they simply couldn't swap out.  There are 5 other EM prefixes in the database and 4 of them are '49s while one (EM923) is a heavy refurb with a transitional '50 cover like you have.  Now Boris has the opinion that the fonts on the receiver and receiver cover are a dead match, and I don't disagree that they are very similar, but I've always hated using fonts across components to prove a match.  Especially when components can be scrubbed such as:



and most troublesome to collectors of data like me, receivers being scrubbed:


If the gun isn't as-issued, one has to be VERY careful what conclusions one draws from them.  There may be many explanations...
      

Offline jstin2

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2017, 11:49:43 PM »
I would like to say that Boris Bradinov, was instrumental in inquiring about this carbine. I had mentioned this carbine in another site (survivor) and he was interested  and from there I started a new post. When I bought it, I cleaned it, oiled and put it in safe. I would like to say that I had not bought a rifle in over 25 years and at Canadian Tire they were unpacking a 53. Bought it and now own 49 to 58 plus both Izzys.

Offline jstin2

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2017, 12:03:24 AM »
This is why I want input from experts. What is your opinion on date and serial number on receiver cover? Does the receiver cover looks scrubbed? There is nothing on stock. Pictures help to prove one way or the other.

Offline carls sks

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2017, 09:35:09 AM »
hi Justin and welcome. good to have you here.  thumb1
ARMY NAM VET, SO PROUD!

Offline spongemonkey

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2017, 09:37:54 AM »
Welcome to the sks-files jstin2! 

Offline newchi

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2017, 10:18:55 AM »
Welcome, (i forgot that last time)
I buy over the counter at wholesale  cry2 or canadian tire too.  You just know the minimum wage guy behind the counter doesnt care what one you ask for.
Westrifle scares me, they have a lot of seemingly goodly rare guns no one else does.
The guys here that study this stuff hard will answer everything with enough pictures i bet,
All i know is EM seems right, and RM has already confirmed that, so im usless as usual.

Offline jstin2

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2017, 10:44:28 AM »
Thanks for the welcome. All comments either positive or negative will make others ponder. This is why I posted and would like as much input from all. If additional pictures are required, I will take and post on one of the existing sites.

Offline Power Surge

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2017, 11:52:04 AM »
I just studied all these pictures VERY carefully, and here is what I can tell you...

The main receiver and the receiver cover, were stamped with the same stamp set.

All the other parts were stamped with a different stamp set, but are all matching aside from the above mentioned receiver and cover.

I would not be suspicious of two different stamp sets being used on one rifle. The receiver and receiver cover are the two main identifying components on the rifle, and were most likely stamped together in the department of the arsenal they were made in as the receiver would have to be serialed at the time of manufacture. The other components were most likely stamped by the assembly department once the receiver and cover were issued the rest of their parts.

Just my 2 cents.

Online Boris Badinov

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2017, 08:06:54 PM »
I am in agreement with PS on the font match between the receiver and cover.

I've purposely made the cover photo larger.


...

There are also 1949 dated covers stamped with  EM prefixes, sans serif 1's with receivers stamped to match.

Curiously this 1950 dated EM spiker has a serif-ed "1" that falls chronologically between 1949 EM guns with the sans serif 1's.

Which suggests the possibility that the 1949 EM series may not be related to a possible 1950 EM serial run. If the EM run in 1950 did in fact include cruciform bayos, it would have to be a very early run... possibly the first serial prefix pair of 1950.

The stock is odd-- being cut for a spike so late in the Soviet production run.  In its favor is the fact that it hasn't been given the faked Westrifle date, arsenal and serial stamps.

But was the bayo channel arsenal modified or humped by westrifle along with the bayo? Here, again, the absence of the humped Westrifle stock stamps suggests (to me, at least), that the bayo channel is an authentic arsenal mod.

To carry that a bit further, I would guess that the arsenal didn't upgrade to the new standard blade bayo often seen on 49 refurbs because the rifle was refurbed for commercial export purposes and not intended for military re-issue...

That day in the refurb factory would have gone something like:  "Hey, Vlad, spike bayonetko eez  een wary good condeeshon. Tell, Nikita to modify stocko for spike."
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 08:12:39 PM by Boris Badinov »

Offline jstin2

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2017, 08:26:31 PM »
Also the stock ferrule is for a spike bayonet(in pictures), which would imply that carbine had a spike bayonet.

Offline newchi

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2017, 09:05:25 PM »
Quote
because the rifle was refurbed for commercial export purposes and not intended for military re-issue...

Man, i wish i knew where Vlad and Nikitas boss was now i would have them pick lottery numbers for me.  Knowing in the 60s that that rifle would end up in a big box store in Canada!

Online Boris Badinov

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2017, 09:35:40 PM »
Quote
because the rifle was refurbed for commercial export purposes and not intended for military re-issue...

Man, i wish i knew where Vlad and Nikitas boss was now i would have them pick lottery numbers for me.  Knowing in the 60s that that rifle would end up in a big box store in Canada!

Ok, ok. Well, at least late enough to know that the rifle wasn't going back into Soviet military service.

Offline newchi

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2017, 10:30:45 PM »
 :)
And i was wrong about the big box store, that was jstin2's other ones. doh.
No lottery winnings for me.

Offline jstin2

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2017, 11:19:43 PM »
Boris- I saw the pictures that you had blown up. The one of receiver does not look good. Could you redo using one of the pictures that I took. It could be lighting or angle of picture taken making the E look different. If I notice this others will also. This will also show similarities. Thanks.

Online Boris Badinov

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2017, 11:59:10 PM »
I posted them in this fashion on purpose. The discerning expert eyes for whom I intended the side by side know very well what features to look for and what comparisons to make.

The prefix on the receiver stamp looks light a bit of a light strike but the dimensions between raised and recessed areas within each letter are still  distinguishable.

Also, and most importantly...I take decent photos, but my photo editing skills leave much to be desired.

That said, I'll see what I can do.

Online Boris Badinov

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2017, 12:05:15 AM »
RM--

Are all of those you posted above from Westrifle guns?


Offline jstin2

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2017, 11:23:49 AM »
Boris- You are right about pictures that you posted. It does highlight the S/N. The E does look different to me, but a person can check the other set of pictures to see that it is the same.

Offline running-man

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Re: 1950 SKS with spike bayonet
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2017, 05:22:14 PM »
Yes Boris, all the photos of the stocks are Westrifle guns. The ones with white backgrounds are right off their own website in fact.  The final two photos are two random Russian SKSs, one posted on gunboards and the other off gunbroker.