Russian Marking/Stigma Thread

[CARBINE]

RM your a stud dude, your going to break the Russian code one day I can feel it...the force is strong in this one

[running-man]

I believe that this one is distinctly different from the octagonal ABV Volga Military District @ Serbdosk that Chumak ID'd in his paper in table 1 (see 5th line from the bottom, also in in RyanE's widely used translation figure in the same location.  In the translation he simply calls it "ABV При Military District @ Serbdosk", but it's all the same as ПриBO is an abbreviation for Приволжский военный округ or Volga Military District).  I also don't find it in any of the unknown hex stamps charts he has noted in his postings:






I've seen it stamped both upward facing and downward facing, it's a definite hexagon, not an octagon like the ABV in Serbdosk.

[running-man]

Here's an interesting one.  Demil etching (maybe a laser etch?) on a Russian SKS that's still in Russia.  T + O in an inverted triangle.  I really think I've seen this one before somewhere...but I'm drawing a blank.

The ММГ (Макет массогабаритный, literally "model weight and dimensions" per the Google) stamp indicates this rifle is a demilled firearm.  The stamp basically says that the gun complies with article 222 of the criminal code.  This basically means it is no longer functional and cannot be made to function through a simple swap out of parts.  The T + O in an inverted triangle is likely the shop that did the demil work.  They added another serial number to the left of the triangle too, hard to see but I read Ыма0027.

[Bunker]

I believe that this one is distinctly different from the octagonal ABV Volga Military District @ Serbdosk that Chumak ID'd in his paper in table 1 (see 5th line from the bottom, also in in RyanE's widely used translation figure in the same location.  In the translation he simply calls it "ABV При Military District @ Serbdosk", but it's all the same as ПриBO is an abbreviation for Приволжский военный округ or Volga Military District).  I also don't find it in any of the unknown hex stamps charts he has noted in his postings:


I've seen it stamped both upward facing and downward facing, it's a definite hexagon, not an octagon like the ABV in Serbdosk.

I've been conferring with Ruslan Chumak for quite some time now and I did ask him about this symbol. Ruslan said both photos shows a symbol like the symbol АБВ Сердобск (translated - ABV Serdobsk), but it does not belong. According to his information, symbol АБВ "Сердобск" has the shape of a octagon. There are some eight and hexagonal symbols of different arsenals and ABV, similar to each other and differ only in the number of external sides of the polygon. Your specified character - one of them. This symbol is unknown to him.

He said he will consider this one for me and seek which artillery weapons base it belongs. He said he will follow-up with me but it may take a little time, but will let me know what he discovers. I'll follow-up with a post at that time.

[running-man]

Awesome Bunker!  I've thought many times of conversing with Chumak and have always put it off for fear of annoying him with my poor grasp of Cyrillic and/or the unsteady US/Russia relations we have going on now.  It'll be interesting to see what he might come back with.

Incidentally, that's not the only unknown hexagon I've seen on Russian SKSs.  The other is on his unknowns chart, second from the top in the left hand column.  This one has two radii converging at the center from two separate corners.  It's almost like a D0 empty diamond within the hexagon:

[Bunker]

Awesome Bunker!  I've thought many times of conversing with Chumak and have always put it off for fear of annoying him with my poor grasp of Cyrillic and/or the unsteady US/Russia relations we have going on now.  It'll be interesting to see what he might come back with.

Incidentally, that's not the only unknown hexagon I've seen on Russian SKSs.  The other is on his unknowns chart, second from the top in the left hand column.  This one has two radii converging at the center from two separate corners.  It's almost like a D0 empty diamond within the hexagon:

That may be one of the other symbols he was referring to in his response. Thanks!

[running-man]

Just found a really neat one I've never seen before:




A bit similar to this one that Chumak has ID'd and I wrote down as "No 7 Leningrad, 1945", but it's clearly a different stamp:

[Loose}{Cannon]

 

Thays a weird one...  Not on the list?

[Dannyboy53]

There we go again, answer one question and half a dozen other mysteries pop up in it's place!   

[Bunker]

RM, Ruslan followed up with me today and said he was unable to decipher the symbol on the 1952 SKS, as well as the symbol on post #63. He looked through a lot of information and sources he has access to but was unable to decipher. He has added these symbols to the unknown symbols in his research. Unfortunately, he said sometimes it takes years to decipher some symbols.

Just found a really neat one I've never seen before:

A bit similar to this one that Chumak has ID'd and I wrote down as "No 7 Leningrad, 1945", but it's clearly a different stamp:

[running-man]

Glad to see you heard back from him Bunker!  I'm very appreciative of all the work I know goes into uncovering info from Cold War era USSR.  Just being able to point out a certain mark for him to be on the lookout for is a good first step IMHO. Maybe he notices something in the future that helps connect the dots to one of his problems.  Maybe some kind of breakthru on these marks happens next week, maybe it takes years, or maybe it ultimately goes unsolved; any way it turns out is ok given where the entire community was a few short years ago.

Thanks again for your willingness to reach out to him!  I'd be deeply in your debt if you would keep us at SKS-Files updated if you see Ruslan publish an updated list of stigmas or generate other works that would be of interest to the community here! 

[CARBINE]

X10 I love reading your updates Bunker, please keep us in the loop.....lots of great info!

[Dannyboy53]

X10 I love reading your updates Bunker, please keep us in the loop.....lots of great info!

+1   

[running-man]

Here's one I hadn't seen on an SKS before:


Looks to be the third one down in this chart of Ruslan's:

[Loose}{Cannon]

The list grows.   

[Bunker]

RM seen something that indicated the /1\ symbol has been updated, so we looked into it. Yes, according to Mr. Chumak, he and his team have found new information and updated accordingly. Here is the correspondence Ruslan sent to me regarding the new information.

A symbol of belonging "in the triangle 1" changed lately. According to the new okochatelnym and most accurate information, this sign belongs to the 41 Central Artillery based weapons (41 TSABV). It was located in the city of Irkutsk. Since then, information about supplies of the sign mennyatsya will not.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Ole 'Liski' term goes bye bye.   

Interesting

[running-man]

Ole 'Liski' term goes bye bye.   

Interesting

Especially since Chumak says this one won't change again!  (Google translation got a bit garbled, but that was the gist I got from the Bing translation.)

Thanks again for reaching out to get the word straight from the source Bunker!  It's so much better than relying on hearsay or blindly following rumor.

I've updated RyanE's original translation of Ruslan's chart.  One day I'll make my own, but until I have the time, this low res band-aid will have to do.

[Bunker]

RM, I made a chart just like that in word when Ruslan first published his work with the two additional symbols but looked high and low and can't find the file, only all the converted pics from it. If I find it, I'll send it your way.

Regarding the translation, I've been having a back and forth discussion for the last couple of hours with him and he attempted to clarify it for me due to the translation. He reworded it a couple of different ways because of the translation difficulties (depending which translator being used). Here he rephrased it for clarity due to the translation difficulties we often have. First is his words in Russian and below that the English translation. I think you have it correct but see what it says in the translator you are using to be certain.

Russian word for word:
Знак (символ) на оружии, который можно описать как "Цифра 1 внутри треугольника" - это знак 41 ЦАБВ (#41 Central artillery armament base). Эта база вооружения располагалась в городе Иркутск.

English Translation:
The sign (symbol), which can be described as the "number 1 inside the triangle" - a sign TSABV 41 (# 41 Central artillery armament base). This armament base was located in the city of Irkutsk.

He also mentioned that perhaps he will publish a book on the signs on Russian weapons, which will be the most comprehensive list of signs and images database of repair weapons. His target is the first half of next year should that materialize. Currently he has found about 80 symbols/pieces (to include the ones I relayed to him from you). Of these, he, along with his team of experts, has decrypted only about 30 and actively researching the remaining characters/symbols.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Great stuff Bunker.....  great stuff.   And thanks!