FSeries Question

[agrace]

Hey guys,
Purchased an F series from Classic a few months ago all the numbers matched except the bolt. Due to that I had to send it off to Murray to get the head space corrected on it as it wouldn't close on a live round, but finally got it to the range yesterday. It shot well.. however I had to move the front sight post all the way to the left and still had a few inches to go to hit zero at 50 yards, however since it was so far over I couldn't adjust elevation. I put a Williams peep sight on the rear that allows for windage and elevation. So I moved the front sight back a bit so I could adjust for elevation and started working with the rear sight for zero. I finally got it close but I had to move the Williams sight quite a bit as well  to get there.  But not sure I have enough adjustment to get 100 yard zero.  I am trying to figure out now if the rear gas block or the front sight is canted, to me it "looks" like the rear gas block might be canted a bit, but I am not sure. Is there an easier way to tell for sure?  I took a few photos with the gun straight and from the receiver cover down the barrel, maybe you guys can see something.  From what I understand canting can be fixed. I can't do it.. but maybe I can find a smith that can.  Below are the pics.. thoughts appreciated.





[imghttp://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/001.jpg[/img]

If I need different pics or something from a different angle that will help let me know.

[agrace]

Also.. I decided as a test a few minutes ago to put it all back together and use my bore sight to see where it lined up, I had to move the front sight post to the right, almost back to the middle and then lower it to get the bore sight dot to line up with just the top part of the front sight.  I wasn't 50 yards however would that be a good indication that I was going something incorrect? It makes me wonder as I had to move the sight back. Or is using a bore sight for open sites pointless? 

I am not sure how to test for barrel straightness so I am not sure if the barrel is bent a bit or not, it doesn't appear to be.  Maybe I need to go back to the range and start at 25 yards instead of 50 and then move out.

[Dannyboy53]

It's hard for me to say with any degree of certainty but it does look like something MAY be out of line. If I were in this situation agrace I think I would try printing at 25 yards (or less) then move out to 50 if all is okay and see how that goes. Then you will be able to tell better by what you have to do with your sights as you increase the distance. If trying from that angle "goes south" then I would execute plan B...go to a Gunsmith!

I don't think it's pointless to bore site with only factory sights, I've done it and know others that have. Actually you can get surprisingly close if you keep your distance down to about 25 yds.

Whatever the problem is I hope it's something simple and cheap to fix!

[agrace]

Thanks Danny,
I think that is what I am going to do. Also in messing with it some more I discovered the rifle would move forward a bit in the stock, as well as up and down when using the heel of my hand on the trigger guard. I used some corking to bed things a bit and it is snug as can be now. That may have also played a role in it. At any rate won't know for a week or so till I get back to the range.

thanks
agrace

[Dannyboy53]

I hope it works out okay for ya agrace, let us know of course. Not to be critical of your attempt at bedding but the cork may not be a good choice. The recoil may beat that cork all to pieces.

[routeus1]

 AK / SKS zeroing target at...

Pokin' Holes

[Loose}{Cannon]

Agrace....   definitely try again at 25 yards.  See whats going on and adjust. If you run out of adjustment or the post elevation is compromised by being drifted too far left/right, you may have either a canted from/rear block. Even though there are pins through the rear and front blocks, its still possible for them to take a bump that knocks it off center a tad.  Adam had one like this and I had him smack it with a rubber mallet a few times in the corrective direction.  Right as rain again....  just food for thought.

[agrace]

Thanks guys. I am going to try 25 next time I make it to the range and see what I can do. I will keep you guys posted

Thanks
agrace

[Crazyone]

Just for S&G---what are you resting the rifle on when you fire it???

[agrace]

I am shooting on the rest in the image below for a rifle.  Before I shot my SKS on this one, I was shooting my Tikka 30/06 to sight it in for deer season.

That is not my pistol

[Greatguns]

Did you get your sights figured out ag? BTW, hard to tell but the FSB does look canted. I have taken a rubber mallet the FSB in the past to fix a canted front sight. Hold the SKS sideways with the direction you want the top of the FSB to go facing down while the barrel is supported on something solid. Smack the top of the FSB with the rubber mallet then check for alignment. Also, did you check to make sure the barel isn't bent? I've had a couple of those over the years as well.

As an FYI(in case you haven't fixed it yet and didn't already know) this is a good rule of thumb for sighting in the irons on an SKS. All measurements and incrementations are approximate but close. YMMV
This will be with the rear sight in its lowest position, or at the 100yds mark. After completion of sighting in as below you should be able to set the rear sight into the battle position and hit your target at 300yds, although it should really all be in meters.
@ 25yds POI should be 1" low of POA(bullseye)
@ 45 yds POI should be bullseye(50yds would be 1/8"-1/4" high)
@ 75yds POI should be 1" high
@100 yds POI should be bullseye again
@ 125yds POI should be 1"-1.5" low

[agrace]

Thanks GG. You actually replied at the best time. I have finally gotten some time to head back to the range today and work with it a bit more. So I will be taking the below with me and giving it a try.

What is a good way to check to see if the barrel is bent? I have limited tools etc.  Just from looking down it I don't see anything, but I know that is not a proper test.  But hopefully I will know more about it this afternoon when  I get back from the range.

thanks
agrace

[Greatguns]

Thanks GG. You actually replied at the best time. I have finally gotten some time to head back to the range today and work with it a bit more. So I will be taking the below with me and giving it a try.

What is a good way to check to see if the barrel is bent? I have limited tools etc.  Just from looking down it I don't see anything, but I know that is not a proper test.  But hopefully I will know more about it this afternoon when  I get back from the range.

thanks
agrace

Actually you can tell a lot from looking down the barrel, but you have to do it from the receiver end.
If you strip the rifle down to just the barrelled action(don't need to mess with the pressed on stuff on the barrel obviously), Look down the barrel from the rear of the receiver so you can get a clear view. You may want to steady it in a vise with the jaws padded or something to get a good steady view. Basically the muzzle end opening should look symmetric in respect to the chamber end in a circle within a circle type view. If the inner circle, the muzzle end, looks off center to the outer circle, the chamber end, then the barrel is bent.
If the barrel is bent it can be cold bent back into position with an hydraulic press without disturbing the temper of the metal. You may or may not need to remove the pressed on parts on the barrel depending on where it is bent.
I had an M59/66 that was bent so bad you could only see about 1/4 of the muzzle end hole because someone had run over the front of it. I did end up cutting off the front 2" of the barrel, but was able to straighten the rest out then re-crown the muzzle. Turned out to be one of my more accurate SKSs. I sold it to a friend here in KC who still has it and hunts with it every year.

[Loose}{Cannon]

+1

GG is a wealth of knowledge and has dont this sorta thing first-hand.

I swear thats a canted RSB or FSB Im seeing..

[agrace]

Yup.. that is what I keep getting my eye drawn back to.. the rear sight base being canted a bit to the right.  However I need to just get the thing in the vise, take some get do as GG suggested and then if need be take a few more pictures from that angle and see.  Unless my range trip proves it was me not adjusting the sights correctly all along.

thanks guys

agrace

[Greatguns]

Hey ag, if you get a chance, take a pic from just a tad further away and coming down over the action just a little bit more than the pics you currently have up. That might help in the focus and the view of alignment.
IIRC there has been a discussion in years past(4-5 maybe) about canted RSBs particular to Yugo M59/66s. I think it was determined that the rear sight leaf tangs were coming in bent so the leaf ended up sitting crooked in the slot of the RSB. That couldn't be the case here as the leaf has been removed in the pics.

Oh, another thought, you can take a straight edge over the top of the action with the receiver cover in place. Lay it over the back center of the cover to the center of the FSB Globe then see how the rest of the action parts line up. You can also line it up to the center(left to right) of the bore. That will give another angle as to what is canted or bent.

[agrace]

Thanks guys.. I will see what I can do. I just got back from the range.. started at 25 yards and hit about 4 inches to the left and about an 3 inches high from the bullseye on a target like the below.



the bad news is I forgot to take my front sight tool with me, well it could have sworn it was in my range bag and it was not. So now the hunt is on for that. 

However on my drive home I was thinking.. and this may be dumb so forgive me... if I got the windage adjusted correctly at 25 yards.. wouldn't windage stay close at 50 yards and further on? Not sure how much I would have to move the front post to the left at 25 yards to make up for the 4 inches.. but if it is not a lot then I may be okay. Unless at 50 I have to keep pushing it farther left. Don't know that just popped into my head. I am not the best with iron sights etc.

[Greatguns]

Think of it in terms of an angle because it is basically geometry. The farther out you go the larger the gap is between the lines of the angle. So, if you are at zero you will pretty much stay at zero. But, if you are off 1/2" to the left at 25 yds. as you go out you will be hitting farther to the left. For example at 100yds, if my math is correct, because it is 4 times the distance you would be 4 times off to the left. In this case it would be around 2".

That is why, when a firearm is not zero'd, it is so hard to get on paper and zero it in starting out at 100yds.

[agrace]

thanks GG.. that makes sense. I found my sight tool  .. so I am going try and go out again tomorrow. But I will try and get some pictures like you mentioned below as well as checking the barrel for a bend using the method you explained. 

[agrace]

Okay guys.. a few more pictures, I looked down the barrel thru the chamber as GG suggested and I don't see anything that would indicate a bend in the barrel.  I don't know if the level idea I had by leveling the receiver and then moving to the rear sight base would show rear sight cant but thought I would try and and let you guys share your thoughts. If that is a good method then the rear sight base is canted to the right a bit.  I look and see something different each time, one time it looks like everything is lined up as it should be and the next the rear sight base looks canted to the right a bit.. . Thought I would throw in a pic of the crown of the rifle as well.