New IJ-70 makarov find

[Witchywoman]

Been a while since posting here,

I missed the Bulgarian one I had sold years ago. In this current market prices on Makarovs are nuts. I spotted an IJ-70 on Gunbroker for a lot less than normal price and  for well under $400. I see them go for $600-$800 weekly. No way I was going to pay that. Snagged it right away.

It appears like someone bought it new in box and never even shot it. I am not sure if the number marks it as made in 1948 but its on both the slide and frame. I knew these IJ's were made for the civilian market (But the quality is just as good as milsurp and the adj sights a plus) but I thought they were a lot newer (like 70's-80's) but I have seen many of them sold as C&R since Russians are listed on the approved list. Frankly I think all countries should be C&R approved, that AFT list is so outdated. What do you all think?

[Greasemonkey]

I have an IJ-70... in . 380, I don't think the  Baikal IJ is deemed C&R, it's technically commercial, and I was once told, the adjustable rear sight differs from the military fixed one, which is obvious. Mine being not 9x18mm probably disqualifies it even more.  I wasn't about to buck the system, I just did a 4473 and went on my merry way.

There is also an ATF letter inquiring about them....  It's on the internet, so it's gotta be true
https://www.mdshooters.com/threads/imez-and-baikal-makarovs-not-c-r.220943/

[Witchywoman]

Was sold by a 01 FFL. Also its not an Imez and the markings on mine look to be military from what I have researched because it has all the markings military russian maks have and is void of several of the marks that Imez and others I have seen have.

I also read that some of these early on were sold as civilian imports but were in fact old military surplus maks sold from armories, the adjustable sight notch cut and put on, and before they started producing the double stack and 380 versions. Of course there is all kinds of misleading information on the net and opinions vary but judging by the date on mine and other markings that I have not seen on most of the clearly later civilian made ones I think its ok. I also have a CCL. The date on it is clear and regardless is well over 50 years old now. Not gonna dwell on it. lol

Guns do not have to be ex-Military though. Many of the guns sold by century,tiger and auction sites are not military at all. Old winchesters, S&W, etc,etc etc. As long as they are 50+ years old or on the approved list and several guns AFT just green stamped as such. For years though I have seen things like Zastava M70s, M88's, FEG pa63's, and a ton of other guns on gunbroker and elsewhere sell as C&R and clearly they are not. There are a lot of dealers/sellers out there that do not seem to check what they are selling on a pretty large scale and I never buy anything like that when I know its not.

[Witchywoman]

Did some further research and it looks like Izhevsk started making these in 1990 so the 1948 date is most likely just to show when the design was conceived. There seems to be little information on the differences between Imez and Izhevsk/Balkail versions unless you really dig which I just did. I went ahead and called the FFL since it had not shipped yet and told him to route it to a local dealer and do it right to avoid any issues. Regardless I think it was a good deal for the price.

Again I really think the feds should update their lists and also note specific differences because I would bet many have sold as C&R because they are Russian and a good deal of people do not know or think of the difference when they see the list says "Russian" made Makarov's.

[Greasemonkey]

Mines dated 1948 and was sold by a 01 FFL so I think I am fine. also its not an Imez and the markings on mine look to be military from what I have researched because it has all the markings military russian maks have and is void of several of the marks that Imez and others I have seen have.

I also read that some of these early on were sold as civilian imports but were in fact old military surplus maks sold from armories, the adjustable sight notch cut and put on, and before they started producing the double stack and 380 versions. Of course there is all kinds of misleading information on the net and opinions vary but judging by the date on mine and other markings that I have not seen on most of the clearly later civilian made ones I think its ok. I also have a CCL. The date on it is clear and regardless is well over 50 years old now. Not gonna dwell on it. lol

Guns do not have to be ex-Military. Many of the guns sold by century,tiger and auction sites are not military at all. Old winchesters, S&W, etc,etc etc. As long as they are 50+ years old or on the approved list and several guns ATF just green stamped as such. For years though I have seen things like Zastava M70s, M88's, FEG pa63's, and a ton of other guns on gunbroker and elsewhere sell as C&R and clearly they are not. There are a lot of dealers/sellers out there that do not seem to check what they are selling on a pretty large scale and I never buy anything like that when I know its not.

I'm not one to bust a bubble, but Russia didn't formerly military accept the Makarov until '51ish... mass production would have started after. I say this because mine is the 40th year anniversary model celebrating the Makarov, 1953 to 1993.




Mine doesn't have Imez  markings either, it's marked Baikal which is a commercial brand off shoot developed by Izhevsk i.e. shotguns, rimfires, AK's etc.

While I fully agree, especially after 20+ yrs of having a C&R..... in the end, it's both the seller and buyers responsibility to decide, down the road.. depending on who gets the ATF audit could be painful if the ATF auditor decides to declare it not a C&R. Because of the clear as mud approach, Ive always erred on the side of caution, makes life a little easier, especially with some weapons there's no way to accurately date, while I may agree it's 50+, there's that niggling feeling it's not worth the risk.  This current day vs 20 yrs ago is alot easier... '74-'75 is 50yrs old, I have a Glock that will be C&R in 15yrs. 

[Witchywoman]

read my previous post.

I had previously stated that the 1948 date on mine had to of been a date to commemorate when they got accepted in trials and not date of manufacture. About 50 of them were made in 48 for trials so that's why that date is probably there (its clearly not the date of manufacture as its not a retro military Mak).  I have been in this hobby since 2005 as well and always do my best to be cautious.

[running-man]

Yup it's always best to be cautious.  I think you did the right thing witchy, in its current configuration and marking/import state as an IJ-70 that gun is not C&R irregardless of how it may have begun its life as a regular military Makarov.

Of course, there is always the fine line that borders the inane (or perhaps insane?  ).  Gun people are some of the most by-the-book, rule-following folk out there.  (Think 922r)  It's probably because ATF carries a big stick and they can bring the hammer down on the most minor of infractions at will based on their own (sadly, often incorrect) interpretation of the law. 

Honestly, anyone that buys a .22 for their kid could be retroactively guilty of a straw purchase if the kid does something stupid and gets in any kind of major trouble (bomb threat at school and the like)  Just look at how they are now going after the parents when a kid steals a gun and takes it to school...

Bottom line is that you're screwed when they want to come after you and it doesn't matter if you followed the letter of the law or not.  The federal prosecutor or DA will make your life hell, ruin your reputation, use the endless resources of the state to financially devastate you, and in the end after several years if you somehow resist and are exonerated, you will get no apology and have no recourse for restitution. 

I always try to make sure I don't do something egregious with regards to my C&R, but I understand the limitations of the system and don't go above and beyond when I know it will not help me if push comes to shove.

[Phosphorus32]

Nice grab 😎 and good move to go through an FFL-01 

The КИ1948 is the serial number on the slide. The model year is 1970, ИЖ-70, where ИЖ abbreviation for ИЖМАШ (Izhmash).

As you found out, Baikal is just a brand name for some of the civilian market firearms manufactured by ИЖМАШ, like Dodge to Chrysler Corporation.

[Witchywoman]

Thanks,

Yeah I was glad that it had not shipped yet when I posted pics here so I was able to re-route properly. One thing I notice about the auction sites though like I had said before. Just this week I saw several Maadi Helwan 51's, the civilian Maadi  that are not at all C&R, sell as such on those sites. The Military marked Helwans are C&R but they have Arabic writing on the slide and were made a lot better than the later ones. Those crappy ones from Interarms that often have soft metal internals (failing locking blocks,etc) were made in the late 70's-80s. Also seen many of the Noricnco Type 54s in 9mm para sold as C&R and those were made well after 1974 as well. The PA63's were also made well into the 80's and those are not C&R unless you find a two digit date by the seal on the left side of frame. Some have a date in the 50's to early 70's which could qualify but most of them cannot be verified and were made less than 50 years ago. Many of them have a very faint date stamp that cannot be read or none at all.  You see a lot of this and its not checked.  I really think more people should research.