Lay Out Your Military Usage Questions

[BishopofBling]

So my other relative is willing to talk, I just got to plan my questions ahead of time and find some recording type video call device or just type my notes with fast hands.

My grandfathers are pretty forth coming with info so what types of questions are you interested in for field usage of the SKS. They weren't involved in manufacture but they used them and saw them in use. I guess we could extend this to other small arms as well. Keep in mind we captured a ton of German and Italian equipment as well.

[running-man]

What era were they active BB?  Post WWII through the Cold War from the sound of it?  If that's the case:

When do they first remember being issued an SKS in the field?  Was it a secretive thing or openly used like captured Mosins, Mausers, and Carcanos?
What did they (the infantrymen) call the SKS?  Was it different from the 'official' name?
Were they ever taught anything by Soviet or Chinese instructors?
Did they carry a full 10 stripper clip load in their bandoleers or was one pocket used for cleaning supplies?
During the Hoxha years, what would have been the punishment for a soldier carving his name, dates, or other info into a SKS carbine stock?
Post 1990, what happened to the armed forces (and their armaments), did they continue with the status quo, form into loose ethnic militias, or were they disbanded altogether?

Thanks for doing this man, it's neat to get first hand info like this 

[BishopofBling]

At the earliest late 50s, they were kids when we were under Soviet influence. All the leftover Carcanos and K98s and the like were the outdated rifles and were delegated towards militias and training marksmanship within the populace. So high schoolers had to qualify and shoot well you were actually graded. I also remember one of my grandfathers mentioning that Carcanos were given to the police as well.

I actually can answer question your last two questions for some context but I'll still ask my grandfathers anyway and get their official word.

For the first question, most of those carving (if not all) were during the '97 period. In 1991 Communism collapsed and we had a democratic government and then it collapsed again in 1997 and that's when the armories were open. The original 1991 collapse was relatively peaceful (still messy) but not as much open violence as in 1997. In 1997 a lot of civilians looted the armories and that's why you'll find their names, town/cities where they're from and dates carved onto rifles.

I can't recall there ever being armories looted in 1991, in 1997 they definitely were and you can find news footage of the looting. AP Archives has a ton for example, and in 1997 it was really bad, that's when you started getting gangs formulating. These guys were real scumbags. From my understanding, many of the guys in the military just went home maybe some joined some group. Fortunately, there wasn't ethnic violence such as in Yugoslavia as we really only have one ethnic group and our population isn't very religious (Kosovars are a different story).

[echo1]

Thanks for the first hand straight scoop. I can't imagine, but it feels close.

Great questions rm. PAX

[running-man]

Also one more I just thought of:

The Albanian SKS has been called the ‘July 10th’ rifle here in the states.  Is there a significance to that date in the context of 1990 or 1997?  Wikipedia and my limited knowledge of the events of that time (I was 15 in ‘90 and still in high school) don’t really say much about that date.

[Boris Badinov]

Thanks for the context, Bishop!

I ran across this one some years back:

Check out the guy who jumps out first with the Albanian made carbine. Looks like a real NIB gem. Also looks like a type63 rifle around 2:17

https://youtu.be/J7tK9bA7Bsg?t=58

[Larry D.]

Watched that one, and the few that auto-played after it.

Wow.

[firstchoice]

Hey BishopofBling,

Have you been in contact with your relative yet? I guess it's not been that long yet. Just anticipating any new insights that he may reveal to us! As far as I remember, this would be as close to actual arsenal workers and their hands-on knowledge as we've come, to date. It could clear up questions and put some real answers in our data pool. 

Looking forward to hearing! Thanks again for doing this!


firstchoice

[Weldrdave]

Thanks for the context, Bishop!

I ran across this one some years back:

Check out the guy who jumps out first with the Albanian made carbine. Looks like a real NIB gem. Also looks like a type63 rifle around 2:17

https://youtu.be/J7tK9bA7Bsg?t=58

I'd have grabbed a case if I could have carried it!  .  My God was that a load.  Nothing like 10 years olds shooting into the air though...     Great Video.

[BishopofBling]

What era were they active BB?  Post WWII through the Cold War from the sound of it?  If that's the case:

When do they first remember being issued an SKS in the field?  Was it a secretive thing or openly used like captured Mosins, Mausers, and Carcanos?
What did they (the infantrymen) call the SKS?  Was it different from the 'official' name?
Were they ever taught anything by Soviet or Chinese instructors?
Did they carry a full 10 stripper clip load in their bandoleers or was one pocket used for cleaning supplies?
During the Hoxha years, what would have been the punishment for a soldier carving his name, dates, or other info into a SKS carbine stock?
Post 1990, what happened to the armed forces (and their armaments), did they continue with the status quo, form into loose ethnic militias, or were they disbanded altogether?

Thanks for doing this man, it's neat to get first hand info like this 

I got some answers from someone serving in the early 70s

1. Many things were initially secretive but it was quickly exposed. There were also informants in basically every battalion that would constantly inform the higher ups.

2. Karabine was the typical word for it. The official name is the same you would see on those Albanian instruction manuals.

3. There were Soviet and Chinese advisors, typically the Soviets would communicate directly with Albanians in Russian while the Chinese would have to find a third party would could speak Albanian or Russian.

4. They never carried a full combat load as they never went to war. He can't remember ever having his pouches full loaded. I forgot to ask if that larger pouch was used for cleaning supplies. I can assume if they didn't stay full loaded then they probably didn't carry the cleaning supplies they probably cleaned them at base with supplies on hand would be my guess.

5. This is interesting, he said out of boredom some guys did scratch things into the stock, although there was never any penal punishments. What typically occurred was disciplinary punishment, I didn't pry further but I would expect extra sentry duty or cleaning latrines would be what he is referring to.

6. According to him, post-1991 the army retained its original Combloc structure in 1997 things got crazy and then post-1997 they tried to emulate NATO. I do have the contact from someone who served during that time period and I can ask for more specifics. Seems a bit out of scope for a Cold War discussion though.

[running-man]

Excellent stuff BB. Thanks for following up on this!! 

[Bacarnal]

BB, Thank you for the information you have acquired and the effort it took, both in this thread and the Albanian thread.  All of us very much appreciate it.

[Phosphorus32]

Great information!    Thanks 

Interesting that some stock carving did occur in the regular army. Not surprising that they got some sort of punishment if/when caught. 

[echo1]

Great info.
Not having any military training, what was the smallest combat unit/group, and what light arms would they have had at their disposal?
AKs, SVDs, RPD or something belt fed, and an RPG or 3 I presume. PAX

[BishopofBling]

Great info.
Not having any military training, what was the smallest combat unit/group, and what light arms would they have had at their disposal?
AKs, SVDs, RPD or something belt fed, and an RPG or 3 I presume. PAX

Iirc from what he said a squad was the smallest unit and that would consist of 11-12 soldiers. Every squad would have a LMG which would be an RPD and the rest would have SKSs or Kalashnikovs or a mix of both and every squad would have a light mortar which I believe was an 80mm he didn't remember exactly what type but it was the smallest mortar available.

I don't think we ever adopted the SVD but I can ask again if there were any DMRs available. I've honestly never seen an image of one in use. Wikipedia claims we used them but I remember showing my grandfather and he'd never seen one. We did have RPGs but I never asked how they were allocated but I can ask. They had Maxims and SG-43s but those wouldn't be used at the squad level as they are very heavy.

[echo1]

Thanks again.

It's interesting how various combat unit were formed and utilized without the general ability to call in artillery or air support.

Although these days, everybody has drones, or should. PAX

[BishopofBling]

Thanks again.

It's interesting how various combat unit were formed and utilized without the general ability to call in artillery or air support.

Although these days, everybody has drones, or should. PAX

So I got a more definite answer, RPG carrier would carry either a Kalashnikov or SKS. One heavy weapon would be carried by a squad so there would be 9 per platoon. So if a platoon had around 30 soldiers they had 3 RPGs. A company would have 3 platoons so you would have 15 RPGs.

Hope that helps, it can be hard to translate into English.

[echo1]

Thanks again.

It's interesting how various combat unit were formed and utilized without the general ability to call in artillery or air support.

Although these days, everybody has drones, or should. PAX

So I got a more definite answer, RPG carrier would carry either a Kalashnikov or SKS. One heavy weapon would be carried by a squad so there would be 9 per platoon. So if a platoon had around 30 soldiers they had 3 RPGs. A company would have 3 platoons so you would have 15 RPGs.

Hope that helps, it can be hard to translate into English.

Any idea how that corresponds with NATO or US formations? PAX

[BishopofBling]

Thanks again.

It's interesting how various combat unit were formed and utilized without the general ability to call in artillery or air support.

Although these days, everybody has drones, or should. PAX

So I got a more definite answer, RPG carrier would carry either a Kalashnikov or SKS. One heavy weapon would be carried by a squad so there would be 9 per platoon. So if a platoon had around 30 soldiers they had 3 RPGs. A company would have 3 platoons so you would have 15 RPGs.

Hope that helps, it can be hard to translate into English.

Any idea how that corresponds with NATO or US formations? PAX

Lol I cannot say, it's out of my expertise. I am sure that information is public though. Militaries don't really hide that stuff.

[Greatguns]

Kind of late getting in on this thread, but just wanted to say thanks to Bishop of bling for all the follow up and information. It has been a good read.