Has anyone read this book?

[Boris Badinov]

I have never encountered this one.


It predates Kehaya and Poyer by 15 years, and purportedly contains the claim that M21 is in fact /21\? Is there any truth to this? Is this a worthy source of SKS info?



Simonov SKS-45 Type Carbines.
Lamont, Wyant & Fuller, Stephen (ed).
Published by Military Arms Research Service, 1981.

[Bacarnal]

Boris, IMHO, I think that hypothesis has been pretty much dispelled.  The sterile "21" Type 56 fits in well with the TT-33 Tokarev pistol copy, the "20", and I think there was a 20 series copy of the Mosin Nagant M44.

[Boris Badinov]

I am not familar at all with the Tokarev and variants.

ARe you saying the chinese versions were stamped simlarly to the early M21's?


Regarding the book, I don't see how anything printed in 1981 wouldn't be even more riddled with inaccuracies and inconsistencies than Kehaya and Poyer's book from 1996.

[running-man]

M20 T54 TT33:


M21 T56 SKS:


M22 T56 AK:



I don't think M21 = /21\ holds any water at all...

Much of what was known about the SKS in '81 would have come from US government docs or from observations of bringbacks from Vietnam. 

[Boris Badinov]

Aha.

Thanks for the tip Bacarnal.

And thanks for the photos, rm.

From this it seems as if the significant designation actually the "M", no?

[Justin Hell]

I have had this book for over a year...and until you posted about it. I totally forgot about it. But, it was even sitting right where I remembered it last.

I have only thumbed through it a few times. I have found a second edition for sale on ebay before.  Likely with Appendix III removed. 

It is quite considerably detailed....lots of useful information, should you need it. It reads like a very dry service manual....hence the thumbing. 

[Boris Badinov]

I have had this book for over a year...and until you posted about it. I totally forgot about it. But, it was even sitting right where I remembered it last.

I have only thumbed through it a few times. I have found a second edition for sale on ebay before.  Likely with Appendix III removed. 

It is quite considerably detailed....lots of useful information, should you need it. It reads like a very dry service manual....hence the thumbing. 

(I'll probably order one later, largely because of the cool 70's disco terrorist on the cover.)

But I'm interested in a few pages that purportedly discuss the M21 and any claims that  suggest a relation to a factory or arsenal /21\

Supposedly these claims are made on pages 112, 114, & 117 of the 1st edition from 1981.

[Justin Hell]

I have had this book for over a year...and until you posted about it. I totally forgot about it. But, it was even sitting right where I remembered it last.

I have only thumbed through it a few times. I have found a second edition for sale on ebay before.  Likely with Appendix III removed. 

It is quite considerably detailed....lots of useful information, should you need it. It reads like a very dry service manual....hence the thumbing. 

(I'll probably order one later, largely because of the cool 70's disco terrorist on the cover.)

But I'm interested in a few pages that purportedly discuss the M21 and any claims that  suggest a relation to a factory or arsenal /21\

Supposedly these claims are made on pages 112, 114, & 117 of the 1st edition from 1981.

All these pages are photo plates with just cursory explanations.

pp 112 nothing to see but a rear sight blade, considered Arsenal 21. D marked, but with the old school groove down the sight plane....which I attributed to older Soviet sight leafs, but....its soggy outside and I don't want to double check my D sight guns...they are in the separate man cave.

pp 113  i know you didn't mention this one, but it shows an inverted takedown lever, most likely from the M21 in hand...and calls it early Chinese production....along with a normal lever, calling it late.

pp 114 refers to an M21 both as arsenal 21 and arsenal m21, showing an M21 No_ serial 833566 Blade bayonet

pp 117 Shows a bolt handle side view only of an arsenal M21 Aussie Engineer captured via Viet Cong fitted with a US Army infrared sniperscope. Which makes the bubba hall of fame....it's nuts.

The aforementioned Appendix III features a one page FA conversion method so lackluster it ranks up with the Anarchist Cookbook plans as far as danger and reliability.  I believe the second edition eliminated that for obvious reasons...and added more color plates? Only saw that once and missed out on it.  It's a neat book...a bit heavy on tedious info we all know, and a bit lackluster due to the lack of information likely available at the time....BUT exhaustive on it for the time.

The artwork is weird though...like the Creature from the Black Lagoon found an SKS....and was about to unleash. It would make a neat T shirt.

[Boris Badinov]

Hey, thanks for looking at those pages.

I think I will probably end up ordering it after the virus subsides-- it'd be a waste to buy it only to end up too dead to read it..

[pcke2000]

I have had this book for over a year...and until you posted about it. I totally forgot about it. But, it was even sitting right where I remembered it last.

I have only thumbed through it a few times. I have found a second edition for sale on ebay before.  Likely with Appendix III removed. 

It is quite considerably detailed....lots of useful information, should you need it. It reads like a very dry service manual....hence the thumbing. 

In part because a significant portion of the book is a combination of Soviet and East German SKS Service (not repair) Manuals.

[Justin Hell]

Hey, thanks for looking at those pages.

I think I will probably end up ordering it after the virus subsides-- it'd be a waste to buy it only to end up too dead to read it..

No sweat.

I wonder if we will see massive price increases on domestically available chest rigs and slings? 

[Boris Badinov]

Hey, thanks for looking at those pages.

I think I will probably end up ordering it after the virus subsides-- it'd be a waste to buy it only to end up too dead to read it..

No sweat.

I wonder if we will see massive price increases on domestically available chest rigs and slings? 

If we wait long enough (i.e. survive), a lot of that stuff and more may end up free for the taking.