Battle Setting vs other sight settings

[echo83]

I'm sure this has been done to death somewhere, but I couldn't find it.

Finally got my SKS out to the range, and was relieved that there were no slamfires, double feeds, failure to feeds, stovepipes, etc. etc. (I was expecting the worst after everything I had read...)

At 50 yards I was a little high and to the left, but at 100 yards, I could only get 2/20 on paper.

The entire time, I was using the battle setting. I didn't make any other adjustments.

I'd like to get dialed in, but am wondering about the best procedure to do so. Do I:

1.) Slide the ladder sight to the proper range?

2.) Get a tool and begin making adjustments to the front sight?

3.) Do some combination of 1.) and 2.)?

I understand the SKS isn't a tack driver, and I'm not trying to make it one. What's the best/simplest way to improve accuracy?

[Loose}{Cannon]

Don't bother with the battle setting.....  its basically equal to 300m so it will cover from crotch to head then back down to crotch as the bullet climbs and then falls. 

Put it on the 1 for 100m and shoot at the 100y target.  There is only like 9 feet difference between the two. 

[Boris Badinov]

Float the barrel. And only shoot in sub-freezing temperatures.

I'm always pleased when winter rolls around and my groups tighten up by 2-3inches.

A more labor-intensive option is to glass-bed the stock inletting.



The best sight tool for the SKS is the Magna-matic. It works for sks and ak. Pass on the $5-10 surplus tools--I've ruined three of them because of the poor workmanship.

Spray bit of CLP on the front sight base dowel and let it soak overnight. This will make windage adjustment a lot easier.


Use a shooting vise if you have one. If not, use a good bench rest for sighting in.

Good luck.

[Greasemonkey]

And only shoot in sub-freezing temperatures.

Please enlighten us on this... What did the NVA do in the jungles, or the ones in the sweltering middle east....wrap barrels with ice? 

Most of the US doesn't see sub freezing temps.. what recourse of action do you propose in that case?

[Boris Badinov]

It was a joke.

However, cold weather always tightens up my groups.

[Phosphorus32]

It was a joke.

However, cold weather always tightens up my groups.

Cold weather always tightens up my...uh, well...never mind   

[Greasemonkey]

Its the subzero shivering thats counteracting your normal everyday shaking.. thats why it tightens your groups.


Usually cold weather shrinks 2 or 3 inche....................    

[Boris Badinov]

Back on topic...

I forgot to add that it's a good idea to start your zeroing process at 25meters (27yds) with the rear sight ladder set at "1"

[echo83]

Thanks for the feedback, all. I should have figured there was no "one sight setting to rule them all." My range doesn't allow me to zero at 25 meters/27 yards, so I'll have to start at 50 yards and take it from there.

[jmaurer]

It may not be convenient if you don't have access to a 100yd+ range, but for zeroing I like to follow the instructions from the original manual, as translated by James Gebhardt. If I recall correctly, the dimensions for the zeroing target are given, which amount to a black rectangle that at 100 meters, will appear to be the same width as the front sight post. I THINK the rear sight is then set at an elevation of 300 meters, the rectangle target is placed on top of the front sight post, and the point of impact is then adjusted until the group average falls a recommended few centimeters above the bottom, center of the target. I may be confusing it with the directions in Gebhardt's translation of the Mosin Nagant manual, but I believe they are about the same.

[bob78]

I will describe official rear sight use, as it is explained in Yugoslav People's Army M59/66 Field Manual. Numbers 1 to 10 are used for distances from 100 to 1000 meters (1 m = 1.093 yd). Rear "battle" notch has the same height as 300 meter notch and is used when there is no time for range adjustment. When using battle notch on targets up to 300 meters, POA should be in the middle of the target and when targets are at distances beyond 300 meters, POA should be on the top of the target. When engaging prone targets, POA should be at the bottom angle of the target.

Official Army zeroing was done this way: 4 rounds were shot at distance of 100 meters, using no. 3 sight notch. Target was 1 meter high and 0.5 meter wide (approx. 40 x 20 in) with black rectangle in the middle, measuring 25 x 20 centimeters (approx. 10 x 28 in). POA was in the middle of lower angle with reference point in the middle of upper angle. Rifle was considered zeroed if 3 of 4 rounds were inside 15 cm diameter (6 in), with centre of this three rounds not further than 5 cm (2 in) from reference point - middle of upper angle.

[echo83]

Ok, this is starting to make more sense to me. I was using the battle setting while shooting at a 12 inch target 100 yards away.

I guess I'm lucky that I even got 2/20 on paper at that distance and with that setting...

[jmaurer]

From The Official SKS Manual - Instructions for Use and Maintenance of the 7.62mm Simonov Self-Loading Carbine (SKS) [Paladin Press, 1997, translation by Major James F. Gebhardt, U.S. Army (Ret.)], pages 42, 43:

"79. Confirmation of a carbine's zero and bringing it to a normal zero are accomplished by firing normal ball ammunition with steel cores. All the rounds should be from the same lot.
The range of firing is 100 meters, with the sight set on 3.
The position for firing is prone with a rest. The carbine's bayonet should be in the combat position.
Firing is conducted at a black square 35 centimeters high and 25 centimeters wide, fastened to a white shield 1 meter high and 0.5 meters wide. The middle lower edge of the black rectangle is the aimpoint. It should be approximately at eye level to the firer. The normal position of the mean point of impact is marked (chalk, colored pencil) on a perpendicular line above the aimpoint. The mean point of impact should be 25 centimeters higher than the aimpoint. This point is called the control point (KP)."

The translated manual continues thereafter with determining the mean point of impact, and what the criteria for successful zero are: four round groups must fall within a 15cm circle, and

"With a normal zero, the mean point of impact should coincide with the control point or deviate from it in any direction by not more than 5 centimeters."

I've got zeroing targets I generated for myself using Microsoft Paint, with the measurements set to centimeters, and with white gridlines at centimeter intervals superimposed over the black, rectangular target. That and a good Konus scope make zeroing a breeze. Nice to accomplish it from prone with a rest, too!

[jmaurer]

I forgot to mention the original source material of Gebhardt's translation: Military Press, Ministry of Defense of the USSR, Moscow 1963.

[running-man]

Interesting seeing the differences between the Soviet method and acceptance criteria and the Yugoslavian way.  Good info guys! 

[echo83]

From The Official SKS Manual - Instructions for Use and Maintenance of the 7.62mm Simonov Self-Loading Carbine (SKS) [Paladin Press, 1997, translation by Major James F. Gebhardt, U.S. Army (Ret.)], pages 42, 43:

"79. Confirmation of a carbine's zero and bringing it to a normal zero are accomplished by firing normal ball ammunition with steel cores. All the rounds should be from the same lot.
The range of firing is 100 meters, with the sight set on 3.
The position for firing is prone with a rest. The carbine's bayonet should be in the combat position.
Firing is conducted at a black square 35 centimeters high and 25 centimeters wide, fastened to a white shield 1 meter high and 0.5 meters wide. The middle lower edge of the black rectangle is the aimpoint. It should be approximately at eye level to the firer. The normal position of the mean point of impact is marked (chalk, colored pencil) on a perpendicular line above the aimpoint. The mean point of impact should be 25 centimeters higher than the aimpoint. This point is called the control point (KP)."

The translated manual continues thereafter with determining the mean point of impact, and what the criteria for successful zero are: four round groups must fall within a 15cm circle, and

"With a normal zero, the mean point of impact should coincide with the control point or deviate from it in any direction by not more than 5 centimeters."

I've got zeroing targets I generated for myself using Microsoft Paint, with the measurements set to centimeters, and with white gridlines at centimeter intervals superimposed over the black, rectangular target. That and a good Konus scope make zeroing a breeze. Nice to accomplish it from prone with a rest, too!

Hang on...100 meters at sight setting 3? And others are calling for 100 meters at sight setting 1?

Interesting to see the differences, indeed! I was shooting from a bench rest. I'm heading out again soon, and if there's no one at my range, I'll be sure to go prone and put the bayonet in the "combat position." I have a hard time believing that would affect groupings, but if you're going for authenticity, you gotta go all the way, right? 

[Boris Badinov]

From The Official SKS Manual - Instructions for Use and Maintenance of the 7.62mm Simonov Self-Loading Carbine (SKS) [Paladin Press, 1997, translation by Major James F. Gebhardt, U.S. Army (Ret.)], pages 42, 43:

"79. Confirmation of a carbine's zero and bringing it to a normal zero are accomplished by firing normal ball ammunition with steel cores. All the rounds should be from the same lot.
The range of firing is 100 meters, with the sight set on 3.

Hang on...100 meters at sight setting 3? And others are calling for 100 meters at sight setting 1?

Interesting to see the differences, indeed! I was shooting from a bench rest. I'm heading out again soon, and if there's no one at my range, I'll be sure to go prone and put the bayonet in the "combat position." I have a hard time believing that would affect groupings, but if you're going for authenticity, you gotta go all the way, right? 

The citation states that this is the procedure for CONFIRM-ing zero which to me is quite different that establishing zero.

Setting "3" is still the 300 meter setting (same as battle setting). As I read it, the citation is describing the procedure for confirming/testing zero after it has already been set at 100meters distance on setting-1.

No?

[jmaurer]

Boris, I always interpreted that they are one and the same: "Confirmation of a carbine's zero and bringing it to a normal zero..." That's the way I've used the info for any unknown/unverified rifles that I've acquired, and it's always seemed to work!

Echo83, I think the point in using this arrangement is to eliminate as much aiming error as possible. When you use a target sized the way the instructions describe, it appears visually to be the same width as the front sight post, when you place the target at 100 meters. This allows you to eliminate windage variance with the sight picture. Then, you just place the black rectangle target ON TOP of the front sight post (with the rear sight set at "3"), and adjust the front sight until the rifle groups as described. Thereafter, when you shoot at 100 meters, set the sight at "1", and so on. There will be variation in elevation if you do not extend and affix the bayonet; I suppose one could zero with the bayonet closed using the same methodology, and not get busted at a public range. The bayonet will make a difference, though. Virtually the same zeroing method is described in the Soviet manual for the Mosin Nagant 91/30. Back when I was buying too many 91/30s cherry-picked and untouched from the Russian crates, each and every one would shoot about 8 inches high and right, unless the bayonet was mounted-then they placed rounds at the point of aim. I didn't understand it until I read the manual, and then everything made sense! With the SKS, since there is no lateral counterweight from the bayonet, the only change in impact from extending or not extending the bayonet should be in elevation; I just can't remember how much it varies.

[Direct Connection]

I've never adjusted my sights. I only adjust accordingly.  If you shooting high right aim lower and to the left ect ect. Besides GM was supposed to send all members a home made front post sight adjuster. They must be banned in Ca because I ain't got mine yet.😁🤣

[echo83]

Quick update: I went out to the range recently and was able to get all 10/10 rounds on a 12 inch target at 100 yards using the "1" setting. Still not as accurate as I want to be, but way better than the 2/20 I got using the "battle" setting.

I swear I'm more accurate with the bayonet extended. Maybe it's psychological.

I'm really reluctant to make any adjustments to the front sight post, but I noticed I'm shooting left of center. I'll keep at it, and try to zero at shorter range (25 yards) before I make any adjustments.