Research Topic: How many Russian SKS45s were imported into the United States?

[running-man]

Want to get in on this but, after reading above posts, I'm kinda lost (no surprise) as to where we are on the "high number" 1,2,3 qualifiers to post iz. 

Laugh man, I know the feeling!

I had wanted the data collection to be straightforward, collect high numbers and be done.  Unfortunately, KBI jumped groups of numbers. It will take a bit more effort to verify block 1, block 2, block 3 etc. Not the end of the world, just not as easy as I'd hoped.

As of now, there are at least 200k of them when taking current CDI and KBI data into consideration and the CAIs and NHMs will likely double that number at least. There are quite a few Russian SKSs out there in the US ladies and gents.

[Loose}{Cannon]

As of now, there are at least 200k of them when taking current CDI and KBI data into consideration and the CAIs and NHMs will likely double that number at least. There are quite a few Russian SKSs out there in the US ladies and gents.
Modify message

Weird!!!!!!!!!

I was recently told this by the Russian SKS God Of CGN. 

All the US researches were based on tiny base of SKSs available in USA. When huge amount of rifles came to Canada from Ukraine in unmolested (except mag pinning) condition, be it original refurb condition or factory original, collectors learnt many new things. Among them are the new empirical data about so called "letter series". Letter series were kind of extra production run, they originally had both laminate and hardwood stocks, and many of them had seen reuse of NOS parts from earlier periods, so it's normal there's no 100% likeness in them. Anyone claiming opposite is just choosing to be ignorant of tons of pictures of factory original rifles discussed here in Canada.

Here, another rifle that can't exist.. Non-refurbed, never issued, original condition letter series with hardwood. I don't deal with SKSs and don't collect them, yet I have seen enough of letter series and '49s and other collectible SKSs that would go for crazy $$$ in US. Here, in Canada it's your regular raccoon in the backyard

.


I know, I know.....  but, I couldn't help myself!!!!     

[Greasemonkey]

As of now, there are at least 200k of them when taking current CDI and KBI data into consideration and the CAIs and NHMs will likely double that number at least. There are quite a few Russian SKSs out there in the US ladies and gents.

That is alot more than I expected... 

[Loose}{Cannon]

Wait wait wait.....    whoah whoah

Who's he callin "ladies"?

[Bob_The_Student]

As of now, there are at least 200k of them when taking current CDI and KBI data into consideration and the CAIs and NHMs will likely double that number at least. There are quite a few Russian SKSs out there in the US ladies and gents.
Modify message

Weird!!!!!!!!!

I was recently told this by the Russian SKS God Of CGN. 

All the US researches were based on tiny base of SKSs available in USA. When huge amount of rifles came to Canada from Ukraine in unmolested (except mag pinning) condition, be it original refurb condition or factory original, collectors learnt many new things. Among them are the new empirical data about so called "letter series". Letter series were kind of extra production run, they originally had both laminate and hardwood stocks, and many of them had seen reuse of NOS parts from earlier periods, so it's normal there's no 100% likeness in them. Anyone claiming opposite is just choosing to be ignorant of tons of pictures of factory original rifles discussed here in Canada.

Here, another rifle that can't exist.. Non-refurbed, never issued, original condition letter series with hardwood. I don't deal with SKSs and don't collect them, yet I have seen enough of letter series and '49s and other collectible SKSs that would go for crazy $$$ in US. Here, in Canada it's your regular raccoon in the backyard

.


I know, I know.....  but, I couldn't help myself!!!!     

[Bob_The_Student]

As of now, there are at least 200k of them when taking current CDI and KBI data into consideration and the CAIs and NHMs will likely double that number at least. There are quite a few Russian SKSs out there in the US ladies and gents.
Modify message

Weird!!!!!!!!!

I was recently told this by the Russian SKS God Of CGN. 

......

Here, another rifle that can't exist.. Non-refurbed, never issued, original condition letter series with hardwood. I don't deal with SKSs and don't collect them, yet I have seen enough of letter series and '49s and other collectible SKSs that would go for crazy $$$ in US. Here, in Canada it's your regular raccoon in the backyard

.


This is what Boris was asking about in another thread recently, I believe.

[Bob_The_Student]

Whoops double posted trying to fix #24 sorry.

[Bob_The_Student]

Here is the only one I have, however, I don't think you need it anymore due to the RH600000 that was posted. But just in case


KBI RH210184

[Shoot The Refurbs]

Digging up an old thread because I believe I may have information I'm not seeing anywhere else.
If this has been pointed out forgive me, I failed to find it.

We keep discussing the RL and RH import stamp wondering what they mean, I was searching through GoneBroker when I found a guy selling the very first RH and RL rifle.
RH000001 and RL000001
He claims he got them directly from the importer who stated they stood for Russian Hardwood and Russian Laminate. 
Although this isn't exactly groundbreaking, we could possibly infer some things, if these really are the true first ones there is something interesting on the RH vs the RL.
The RH has been double striked by the dot matrix, and the RL looks clean. perhaps this shows they got the RH's first and were still working out import stamp bugs on the early RH's but not the RL's due to them coming after? literally just riffing here, but perhaps an idea to revisit?

I'd also like to say, GM's idea on it being kind of like a chinese dating system for batch numbers makes the most sense to me.
If he is correct, moving forward we would have to try and identify highest number of the last 5 digits to attempt an estimation and number per batch.

Here is the link to the seller with both of the rifles mentioned above and his details on it.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/876089638


Just my .01  (I'd give you .02, but ya know.... coin shortage  )

[Justin Hell]

I am imagining a certain someone frantically scrutinizing the data....smacking oneself upon the noggin...and craving tomato juice.


That makes so much sense it really bugs me.

I am very glad my RH is actually in H...despite not being original.
That explains the difference in H and L tally's. 

[Shoot The Refurbs]

I am imagining a certain someone frantically scrutinizing the data....smacking oneself upon the noggin...and craving tomato juice.


That makes so much sense it really bugs me.

I am very glad my RH is actually in H...despite not being original.
That explains the difference in H and L tally's. 

If confirmed this can also provide an easy way to tell what they came to the US in.   

[running-man]

Digging up an old thread because I believe I may have information I'm not seeing anywhere else.
If this has been pointed out forgive me, I failed to find it.

We keep discussing the RL and RH import stamp wondering what they mean, I was searching through GoneBroker when I found a guy selling the very first RH and RL rifle.
RH000001 and RL000001
He claims he got them directly from the importer who stated they stood for Russian Hardwood and Russian Laminate. 
Although this isn't exactly groundbreaking, we could possibly infer some things, if these really are the true first ones there is something interesting on the RH vs the RL.
The RH has been double striked by the dot matrix, and the RL looks clean. perhaps this shows they got the RH's first and were still working out import stamp bugs on the early RH's but not the RL's due to them coming after? literally just riffing here, but perhaps an idea to revisit?

I'd also like to say, GM's idea on it being kind of like a chinese dating system for batch numbers makes the most sense to me.
If he is correct, moving forward we would have to try and identify highest number of the last 5 digits to attempt an estimation and number per batch.

Here is the link to the seller with both of the rifles mentioned above and his details on it.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/876089638


Just my .01  (I'd give you .02, but ya know.... coin shortage  )

Good observation STR, I've actually seen that auction before (price has come down on these considerably (I guess he finally wants to sell them), but never read that portion of it.  Makes sense though.  As JH says, slapping my head and saying I should have had a V8 on this one.  The database mostly confirms this hypothesis.  I found a very few odd men out, and when I looked at the photos a second time, realized I had misidentified the stock types on a handful of them.  There are still a couple outliers, but they could have had stocks swapped after import or might have been misidentified as well.  The vast majority of RL's are laminate, and for RH's they are hardwood.   

As for GM's early/late batch theory on the RL/RH's; I think this is a hard strike against it.  Laminates and Hardwoods were not separated at refurb as photos of crates of 'untouched' SKSs from Canada show both kinds present in the same crate.  It was likely a KBI specific thing where they pulled a gun from the crate, graded it and determined the stock type, and then stamped and recorded it before packaging the gun + accessories/sling into the box for sale at retail.

The jumping digits from 200k to 600k in the individual RH series....that could easily be a different import batch and I lean towards that guess myself....

[Shoot The Refurbs]

I agree that they likely were imported alongside each other, it just makes logistical sense.
but I do still think that the numbering could be batch numbers with the leading digit as an identifier of the batch itself but maybe not year specific like the chinese had done.
Is there something i'm (likely) missing that would disqualify this idea?
Also, a couple questions I'm now pondering....
Have we found any rifles within the other ranges, ie SN R(L/H)1xxxxx, 2xxxxx,3xxxxx, etc. to possibly confirm this or is there a clearly defined gap between the 2xx,xxx and the 6xx,xxx SN's?
Are there any leading digits that are present on RH's but not RL's or vice versa?

I'm excited to hear others thoughts on this.
-STR

[running-man]

I think we agree on the leading numeral jumps being consistent with different batch numbers.  My understanding of what GM had proposed was that the RH vs RL were different batches, and I think that highly unlikely in lieu of the observation that RL = laminate and RH = hardwood. 

I have not seen a large jump in the RL's like I have in the RH's, but then again, there are probably 6-7 RH's for every 1 RL I have catalogued in the database.  After finding the 600k RH gun, I got so discouraged I haven't touched this topic since.   

No idea if there are 3xxxxx 4xxxxx 5xxxxx series out there.  At some point I will go through my photos and find out (it has to be photos, I don't record the imported S/N anywhere in the database - I possibly should start going forward so I have a fully searchable field for when questions like this come up)

[running-man]

Another possibility I just thought of is that the 6xxxxx series might indicate a new batch, but the code could be 1996 imported such that it signifies 199(6)xxxxx and does not necessarily mean 3xxxxx, 4xxxxx, & 5xxxxx if they didn't import any in 1993, 1994, & 1995.  (Dec. 1992 through April 1996 was the only possible wholesale import window for these direct from areas of the former Soviet Union)

It's just a WAG, but it may be that we never find anything but the originals numbered from 000001 to whatever (I *think* those are sequential - in order - with no gaps, but would have to really refine the database to ensure this), and then the jump to 6xxxxx. 

[Larry D.]

Dang, fellas.

Sometimes you make my head spin the way you guys jump into this stuff.

I cane here because I like the SKS. I figure most of us did.

But, like the rest, I started learning a bit more about the history. Then a bit more. Then more......

Now, any time I see one, I look for certain things. I don't have to pick one up to know a good bit about it. Stock type, bayo type and color - and proper orientation-, gas block, paint or blue, barrel length, factory scope mount...... All from a distance tells me if I should get serious about it.

All of these things I learned without studying or internet searches. Just by hanging out here with some cool like minded folks
All of it right here.
No sh*t attitudes. No egos. No internet purse swinging. Just reading and soaking up the info.....by osmosis I guess.

[Shoot The Refurbs]

I think we agree on the leading numeral jumps being consistent with different batch numbers.  My understanding of what GM had proposed was that the RH vs RL were different batches, and I think that highly unlikely in lieu of the observation that RL = laminate and RH = hardwood. 

I have not seen a large jump in the RL's like I have in the RH's, but then again, there are probably 6-7 RH's for every 1 RL I have catalogued in the database.  After finding the 600k RH gun, I got so discouraged I haven't touched this topic since.   

No idea if there are 3xxxxx 4xxxxx 5xxxxx series out there.  At some point I will go through my photos and find out (it has to be photos, I don't record the imported S/N anywhere in the database - I possibly should start going forward so I have a fully searchable field for when questions like this come up)

It's likely my misunderstanding of what he had been saying, but I believe we're thinking the same thing or close. Essentially, the leading digit is what is the identifier for batch number, with 0 being the first batch. The RL's and RH's would have their own number sequence independent from each other, only sharing an identifying digit (leading digit) link between them for batch number they came in. From the 2xx,xxx and 6xx,xxx pictures posted we can also see that the serial number sequence has reset, likely in between each batch but without more data unable to say for certain that it wasn't once they reached say, 50,000 in number that they reset it. The 3xx,xxx 4xx,xxx etc. potentially missing data points could really shine some light there on when the number sequence reset.

Another possibility I just thought of is that the 6xxxxx series might indicate a new batch, but the code could be 1996 imported such that it signifies 199(6)xxxxx and does not necessarily mean 3xxxxx, 4xxxxx, & 5xxxxx if they didn't import any in 1993, 1994, & 1995.  (Dec. 1992 through April 1996 was the only possible wholesale import window for these direct from areas of the former Soviet Union)

It's just a WAG, but it may be that we never find anything but the originals numbered from 000001 to whatever (I *think* those are sequential - in order - with no gaps, but would have to really refine the database to ensure this), and then the jump to 6xxxxx. 

This is fascinating, it seems KBI did use some common sense when labeling their serial numbers, perhaps the batch identifier number was as simple as the year and 0 being the initial test import? Just riffing on a lot of this here but this is certainly a pretty interesting roll I think we're on. 

And you're damn right larry, that's why I love this place.