All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?

[Boris Badinov]

Anyone have one of these?  All original, all matching, and none of obvious attributes associated with refurbishment.

Apparently there are  swarms of them north of the border, but so far  no one who claims to own one or to have seen one has been willing to post anything of evidentiary value beyond verbal testimony.

If they exist, seems as if there should be a roughly equal percentage of them among the US shipments.

So, if anyone's got one,  would you mind posting some detailed photos? I'm looking for a lot of detail, in order to  verify all-original, all matching, and non-refurb attributes.

All serials - stamps and EPs
And HD close ups of the all surfaces of the barreled action and stock.

Thanks

[jstin2]

Hi Boris, I have been reading posts on CGN. I took a look at my 57. It has a hardwood stock, all matching serial numbers ( EP on gas tube and piston rod) except for magazine. It does have a refurb mark on receiver cover and handguard is laminate. Stock has matching serial number. If you want I can take pictures later and post. 

[Boris Badinov]

Hi Boris, I have been reading posts on CGN. I took a look at my 57. It has a hardwood stock, all matching serial numbers ( EP on gas tube and piston rod) except for magazine. It does have a refurb mark on receiver cover and handguard is laminate. Stock has matching serial number. If you want I can take pictures later and post.

Hey, jstin2--

Thanks for reply. No need to post, though, as I'm specifically seeking carbines with ZERO indications of refurbishement.

[jstin2]

No problem. My only question is why they would have put a hardwood stock on this carbine when they had laminate available?

[Boris Badinov]

No problem. My only question is why they would have put a hardwood stock on this carbine when they had laminate available?

Hard to tell.

But since its been refurbished, it's impossible to say with any certainty what is original and what is not.

Msybe others have a different interpretation, but as I see it, the laminate handguard is a red flag for likely stock replacement.

[jstin2]

Or it could be the other way. Original stock and handguard replacement.

[Boris Badinov]

Sure.

But the refurb indicators exclude such an example from use in making a determination either way.


Does the gas tube have indications of re-blue, paint, or a previous EP'd serial number?

[Boris Badinov]

There is this 1957 posted in the Letter Series Sticky and identified as non-refurb:
http://s1316.photobucket.com/user/toeknee221/media/IMG_6106_zps43d28198.jpg.html


But the photos are limited, and I have questions about the annealing stripe on the top cover, the photos of which suggest possible reblue:
http://i1316.photobucket.com/albums/t618/toeknee221/IMG_5949_zpsfe342d46.jpg

Also, no photos of the gas tube and piston EP serials.

[jstin2]

There is no indication of re-blue, paint or a previous EP'd serial number. No problem punching out pin, put in new laminate handguard, replace pin and slap it back on carbine. Then mark the receiver cover- refurb.

[Boris Badinov]

Jstin2,

I take it back. Will you post photos of your rifle? No hurry.

Also, it's not a Molot gun is it?

[pcke2000]

Anyone have one of these?  All original, all matching, and none of obvious attributes associated with refurbishment.

Apparently there are  swarms of them north of the border, but so far  no one who claims to own one or to have seen one has been willing to post anything of evidentiary value beyond verbal testimony.

If they exist, seems as if there should be a roughly equal percentage of them among the US shipments.

So, if anyone's got one,  would you mind posting some detailed photos? I'm looking for a lot of detail, in order to  verify all-original, all matching, and non-refurb attributes.

All serials - stamps and EPs
And HD close ups of the all surfaces of the barreled action and stock.

Thanks

Why?

[Boris Badinov]

Why?

I think they do not exist. Others say that they do.

Because it is logically impossible to prove non-existence, maybe someone can prove existence by showing me one.


I've seen plenty of 57's and 58's in hardwood stocks, but without exception they have all exhibited at least one indication (usually many more) of refurbishment.

The only ones I've seen that show no attributes commonly associated with refurbishment have been in laminate stocks.

Which leads me to the conclusion that hardwood stocks on 1957 and 1958 carbines are non-original and laminate is the original standard.

[Boris Badinov]

I think i misunderstood  your "why?", pcke2000.

If not in roughly equal percentages, than at least....some?

[Boris Badinov]

To date, the only post 56 that I've seen that has the looks of a convincing hardwood original is in the Letter Series sticky.

But I'd like to see more detailed photos of it. Especially the annealing strip on the top cover and the ep serials on the tube (and to a lesser extent the piston)

[pcke2000]

I think i misunderstood the your "why?", pcke2000.

If not in roughly equal percentages, than at least....some?

I am just purely curious if there would indeed be 'a roughly equal percentage of them among the US shipments', due to the time difference considering the peak import time in the US was much earlier.

One example, it seems like 1949 with the correct cruciform bayonet are much more rare in the US than in Canada. I personally do not know how many Russian SKS rifles were imported into the US and Canada respectively, however I feel the US got a lot (the number may be comparable to that of the imported to Canada ??)

[Loose}{Cannon]

I think i misunderstood the your "why?", pcke2000.

If not in roughly equal percentages, than at least....some?

I am just purely curious if there would indeed be 'a roughly equal percentage of them among the US shipments', due to the time difference considering the peak import time in the US was much earlier.

One example, it seems like 1949 with the correct cruciform bayonet are much more rare in the US than in Canada. I personally do not know how many Russian SKS rifles were imported into the US and Canada respectively, however I feel the US got a lot (the number may be comparable to that of the imported to Canada ??)

Which is one of the reasons I asked for import numbers on CGN, and also asked for RM to crunch the data on US imports to get a conservative number.   However, certain members of CGN would rather make it a ****show.  A member there however has contacted me that has VERY extensive inside knowledge of the Russian import numbers, shipment dates, importers.... everything, and if you add it all up its around 45K units. I understand this may not include or take into account 'every' shipment or "batch", but nobody seems to be willing or are simply unable to fill any gapes they claim exists.  Losts of grandstanding and hot air however.   

[Justin Hell]

Could it be that the older SKSs were simply further back in storage and didn't come out until later?  The Canadians seem to have plenty of 50-51s too....seemingly higher than the US as well.  At least with the parts resellers I have dealt with.

Just an observation, I haven't been keeping up with any stats.

I hope I am wrong, as it might indicate they have reached the back of the storage unit so to speak, since imports up there seem to be drying up.

[Boris Badinov]

I've been wondering if a lot of Russian guns in Canada may have gone  into deep storage much, much later... and for very brief periods before export, or maybe not at all.

So many of the examples I've seen from the CA imports have various condition issues or signs of heavy, and  possibly multiple refurbishments. Which could suggest they were in active issue service well past the Soviet collapse. All conjecture, of course, but overall batch condition has to indicate something.

So far I've found two hardwood 57's on CGN that owners claimed to be all original ...but they are both Molot guns. I've only scanned the first 35 pages in the Red Rifles forum though.

[Greasemonkey]

I've been wondering if a lot of Russian guns in Canada may have into deep storage much, much later... for very brief periods before export, maybe not at all.
...but they are both Molot guns. .

When I was getting my Mosin fetish on.. alot of the Molot imported Mosin Nagants were quoted as coming out of the Ukraine.... not Russia. So they would have had to spend some time there in some kind of storage depot. It's possible, all these rifles being surplus, the SKSs were flowing from the same place.

[jstin2]

Boris-  took some pictures today. If you want more let me know.
https://ibb.co/album/cyz2Tv