Calling All 45 Gurus - Two Digit SerNo???

[Matchka]

Words of wisdom? I've seen 3-digit but never a 2-digit SKS-45 of any production year.

[Phosphorus32]

In a letter block of 10000 (or 9999, if they didn’t use zero) there will be:
10 (0.1%) one digit
90 (0.9%) two digits
900 (9%) three digits
9000 (90%) four digits

So yes two digit serial numbers are relatively rare at just 9 of 1000. Not the type of “rarity” that brings a premium in my experience.

[running-man]

AB9999 is an order of magnitude rarer than any two digit S/N.  But then again, so is AB9998, AB17, or AB5730 for that matter. Like P32 says, it's just a number, no premium.

[Bob_The_Student]

Does the low serial no premium apply to ANY SK's? Not even for a 1 or 001 or 0001 doesn't have a teenie premium?

[Greasemonkey]

I would imagine if you found Soviet Sino 001 or Yugoslavian Long Barrel M59 with a serial of 001, then a premium might be valid.  With Russian or Romanians it's hard to judge, no one knows exactly which is the first of a series because we don't know every prefix or suffix.

Usually price premiums are driven more by features, lack of features, year or certain other things more so than a serial. 

[Bob_The_Student]

Makes total sense!!! Thanks for the lightning fast reply.

[Phosphorus32]

I would imagine if you found Soviet Sino 001 or Yugoslavian Long Barrel M59 with a serial of 001, then a premium might be valid.  With Russian or Romanians it's hard to judge, no one knows exactly which is the first of a series because we don't know every prefix or suffix.

Usually price premiums are driven more by features, lack of features, year or certain other things more so than a serial.

Yup, if you've got serial number 1 for a firearm that used a true indexing, numeric characters only, serial number, like the M1 Garand, Springfield Armory, Serial Number 1, then you have something with a huge premium. For firearms that used a letter block serial number and especially the eastern bloc countries that obfuscated that letter block code by having it non-progressive, then it's not particularly valuable.

I guess I would be willing to pay an extra $25 for a Romanian serialized GN1-1959 and about $0 extra for GN2-1959. It's just the first carbine of the letter block some time in the beginning/middle/end of the year.

[martin08]

That's a nice looking gun.  It will bring a premium just for condition.

[Phosphorus32]

That's a nice looking gun.  It will bring a premium just for condition.

True...we've been down in the weeds prompted by the opening question  but from what we've seen of it, that looks like a really nice non-refurb.

[running-man]

I would imagine if you found Soviet Sino 001 or Yugoslavian Long Barrel M59 with a serial of 001, then a premium might be valid.  With Russian or Romanians it's hard to judge, no one knows exactly which is the first of a series because we don't know every prefix or suffix.

Usually price premiums are driven more by features, lack of features, year or certain other things more so than a serial.

I would say that the PS series is the first Romanian series made GM.  The no date guns that magically increment to '57 part way in...
PS0001 would be a gem of a find.

Definitely a nice gun by the OP.  Lots of nice '52s out there.

[Greasemonkey]

I would imagine if you found Soviet Sino 001 or Yugoslavian Long Barrel M59 with a serial of 001, then a premium might be valid.  With Russian or Romanians it's hard to judge, no one knows exactly which is the first of a series because we don't know every prefix or suffix.

Usually price premiums are driven more by features, lack of features, year or certain other things more so than a serial.

I would say that the PS series is the first Romanian series made GM.  The no date guns that magically increment to '57 part way in...
PS0001 would be a gem of a find.

Definitely a nice gun by the OP.  Lots of nice '52s out there.

A No-Date Romanian . I'd hand over either of my Russians for one..

I was just trying to keep it simplified.. the PS/no date series of Romanians generally show up about as much as a as issued '50 Russian. At least thats what it seems like to me..

[Matchka]

What does the Cyrillic GP equate to? The lot or batch or?  (It's a nice non-refurb but seller is asking over 1700 bucks!)

[Bob_The_Student]

Let me give this a shot. Test my learning skills from all the info many of these guys have provided me over the past few months.


So the "GP" converted from Cyrillic alphabet means that rifle is the 41723 rifle manufactured in 1952. Of course that is if I have the "P" correctly identified. "G" is the 4th letter and "P" is the 17th letter of Cyrillic alphabet and you put those numbers in front of the numeric serial and you get 4-17-23= 41723. I'll need an expert to check my work. This was more for me to make sure I have this down but IF I'm correct it will answer your question Matcha.

If this is wrong please delete so others don't read incorrect information. LOL....seriously though.

[running-man]

Let me give this a shot. Test my learning skills from all the info many of these guys have provided me over the past few months.


So the "GP" converted from Cyrillic alphabet means that rifle is the 41723 rifle manufactured in 1952. Of course that is if I have the "P" correctly identified. "G" is the 4th letter and "P" is the 17th letter of Cyrillic alphabet and you put those numbers in front of the numeric serial and you get 4-17-23= 41723. I'll need an expert to check my work. This was more for me to make sure I have this down but IF I'm correct it will answer your question Matcha.

If this is wrong please delete so others don't read incorrect information. LOL....seriously though.

I believe this to be incorrect. Kehaya and Poyer have zero data that this numbering system was in use during SKS production despite including it in their publications.  Indeed, we see indications from the feature changes on transitional SKS45s that the prefix incrementation was not sequential or even in any kind of alphabetical order for that matter. It was in all likelyhood not totally random either, but we just haven't cracked the Russians code yet.

I guess I'll tell you what I tell everyone else about the body of SKS information out there: follow the data.  If one of the 'experts' makes a proclamation, you are not out of line to ask them "how do you know this is true?"  If they bluster away and tell you about how they were there during the original inports, have xx in their collection, or have xx years experience, that's all well and good but none of those things helps one litttle bit when it comes to verifying the authenticity of a statement on the production of a series of guns.

The past 20 years have seen many advances in SKS theory, unfortunately the internet (and published works for that matter) never forgets and old & outdated, unverified, or just plain inaccurate information will never go away. This is one of the reasons we founded this site as it was clear that SKSBoards was more interested in maintaining the status quo and keeping values of certain members' collections elevated rather than probing the data to get the right answers. 

[Bob_The_Student]

    Ha... you knew where I got some of my info from (Kehaya/ Poyer). I'm glad I attempted that so now I know that don't hold water, probably. Still learning even when I think I learned that part. So, can I throw this book away now. It seems it's always wrong. Original black bolt carriers, it stated 1952 Izhevsk (thought only '53 - '54) and now this. Time for me to never refer to this thing again, I think.

     Ok, like I said delete that if need be so bad info not out there. I'm totally fine with that. If you think it's best to leave then I'm ok with that also.
     

[Greasemonkey]

The book is ok..... for basic stuff like what could possibly fit what in dire need. Some stuff in it is ehh.. it's not the beat all, end all final word. Tons of information has changed, if it was even correct, since it was last printed, as such info changes faster than the paper printed word, even printing a copy today, something could change before it hits the retailers, and poof... Instant obsolescence.

Hey..... I even own a copy, works great for leveling a wobbly stool. 

As for these rifles.....just when you think you have it down pat.... The carpet can be ripped out from under you and you feel like your back being a noob again. That's the fun part, being open minded enough to discuss, ask questions and trying to debunk it all and then try to rationalize the whole new screwy mess till it changes on you again.

[pcke2000]

    Ha... you knew where I got some of my info from (Kehaya/ Poyer). I'm glad I attempted that so now I know that don't hold water, probably. Still learning even when I think I learned that part. So, can I throw this book away now. It seems it's always wrong. Original black bolt carriers, it stated 1952 Izhevsk (thought only '53 - '54) and now this. Time for me to never refer to this thing again, I think.

     Ok, like I said delete that if need be so bad info not out there. I'm totally fine with that. If you think it's best to leave then I'm ok with that also.
   

According to some Russian researchers, Izhevsk started making SKS in 1952.

[jstin2]

Going through my safe I found a 2 digit S/N. I was surprised that it is on a 54 Izzy, due to the fact that it had 2 letters before the digits. I thought that in 54 they had one letter before and one after the digits. The stock and bayonet are not original to carbine. The stock has only S/N on it and the bayonet is black.

https://ibb.co/album/npv5wF

[newchi]

    Ha... you knew where I got some of my info from (Kehaya/ Poyer). I'm glad I attempted that so now I know that don't hold water, probably. Still learning even when I think I learned that part. So, can I throw this book away now. It seems it's always wrong. Original black bolt carriers, it stated 1952 Izhevsk (thought only '53 - '54) and now this. Time for me to never refer to this thing again, I think.

     Ok, like I said delete that if need be so bad info not out there. I'm totally fine with that. If you think it's best to leave then I'm ok with that also.
   

My edition has a tula stamp notated as Izhevesk (or vice versa)  So either they didnt check it very well before print or its not that accurate in general

[Matchka]

EVERY tidbit of information here is appreciatedand leads to cracking the Russian's SKS production code. In any case, I've learned that a 2-digit code, IMO, doesn't justify the $1,999 "Buy Now" price - unless perhaps it's a non-refurb, xclnt condition Izzie.