Author Topic: Paratrooper replacement stock  (Read 659 times)

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Offline Chase the fizz

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Paratrooper replacement stock
« on: April 01, 2018, 03:21:16 PM »
I have a ksi imported paratrooper with a spike bayonet.

The stock doesnt have the same sn as the rest of the rifle and i really hate the ergonomics of the stock thats on it. I was thinking about just sanding the stock to fit the way i like it, but i wanted to see if there were any affordable replacements out there before i started sanding it.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Re: Paratrooper replacement stock
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2018, 09:04:57 AM »
might find something on eBay.  :o
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Offline Justin Hell

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Re: Paratrooper replacement stock
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2018, 05:16:50 PM »
You may be able to locate an unserialed stock but you will likely find the stock ergonomics to be the same.

 You also will need to contend with locating one for your specific type of barrel attachment. Pinned, Short lug/Long lug threaded....it being a paratrooper, you will also want to find one with the wider bayonet cut, as the channel is wider for the shortened bayonet.  This adds up to a lot of criteria that often will end up with you purchasing the wrong stock.  Photos are often poor, or don't even show where you can determine the placement of the crossbolt (which is where the barrel attachment type comes in.) Paratrooper is a search term added to virtually everything under the sun in the parts market to try get a little more for the item...and often sellers claim to know what they are selling and really don't.

Pics would help in determining what type you should be looking for. The serial number and factory stamp help as well, most importers got quite random assortments...and paratrooper shortened rifles are also all over the map. Pictures of the barrel joint under the rear sight will help determine a lot, if you don't already know what kind it is. :)

Since it doesn't match already, and if it is a typical style SKS stock that fits properly, you may as well alter it to your preference.  Chances of reuniting your stock to its gun are practically nonexistent.  If you plan to sell it in the future though, alterations to the original style will likely reduce your selling price...mismatched serials or not.

You could alter the one you have and perhaps keep an eye out for the perfect match to bring it back to 'original' without a pesky serial number gumming up the works.   It might not hurt to post photos regardless in case you have something unique and valuable to someone else.

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Offline Chase the fizz

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Re: Paratrooper replacement stock
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2018, 10:07:24 PM »
Thanks for all the info.

This sks is in nearly pristine condition and i hate to go sanding on the stock and screw it up, only to not have a replacement if something goes wrong.

Ill add some photos to see what you all think about it. If i cant find a fairly cheap stock for it, ill just leave it the way it is and train to use it in its current form.














Most animals are cute and cuddly, until backed into a corner. Then the REAL animal comes out.

Offline Chase the fizz

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Re: Paratrooper replacement stock
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2018, 10:13:03 PM »






Most animals are cute and cuddly, until backed into a corner. Then the REAL animal comes out.

Offline firstchoice

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Re: Paratrooper replacement stock
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2018, 03:04:24 AM »
What is it about the ergonomics of the original style wood that you're unhappy with? If it's LOP, that can be altered easy enough. If it's the style of the grip or comb, there's not much you can change without going to aftermarket stocks. The Chinese stocks are pretty much the same across the board.

The stock set you are using now looks to be original Chinese finish, with the stock and handguard matching in color and finish, as close as I can tell. And it looks to be in pretty good condition. Depending on what it is that you're wanting different in ergonomics, I'd suggest looking for something different and keeping the matching stock set for future use or resale. Maybe even use it for trade for what you're looking for? Without knowing more on your ergonomic wishes, that's about all the .02 I've got.

Welcome to the board, btw!

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Offline Justin Hell

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Re: Paratrooper replacement stock
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2018, 08:15:00 AM »
Nice /26\ 1966 you have there.
It is a short lug threaded barrel stock you would be searching for...which are sometimes a little tricky to find without picking up a long lugged version or two along the way.  The nice thing is...there were very few spike bayonet long lug guns...so you are likely to find the right one once you look up the visual differences on the sksguide.com to avoid ending up with a pinned version, which absolutely won't fit your gun.

Does your bayonet hang a little flaccid or does the stock keep it from folding flush with the bottom?  If the stock is keeping it from fully closing, you likely ended up with a non paratrooper inletted stock, that fits the gun fine...but wasn't cleared enough for the stubby shortened paratrooper bayonet....that is something you could do to this one that might make it function better, and since it doesn't match anyway...it shouldn't affect value much.  The innermost pin in the bayonet channel should have actually been cut from the additional routing....if it isn't chances are the stock came from a full sized SKS and was added by the previous owner...as a replacement for an aftermarket stock.  A likely scenario if all the other numbers match.   If you do elect to route out the channel, make yourself a jig to keep the depth level....bayonet cuts are trickier to pull off than one might think.  If it is just not getting enough tension to stay up fully, that can be a little harder to address....let me know if that is the case and I will describe that can o' worms.

I have a mystery stock coming in with some parts in a few days...and may have a paratrooper inletted stock around here too.  I have a little smithing work to do today...I will dig around and see what I have.

As firstchoice stated, knowing your criteria you would like to address could help point you in the right direction. There are many aftermarket stocks and accessories that might suit you. If it feels like you are shooting an ice skate due to the bayonet being like that...I already covered the solution for that. :)

EDIT: Looking closer, it appears that your bayonet may be slightly shorter than some, and may not actually reach the second pin. These were shortened full length bayonets, and sometimes between whoever modified them, you will run into some variance on the length.
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Offline Chase the fizz

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Re: Paratrooper replacement stock
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2018, 07:58:39 PM »
Guys, i really appreciate all the great info everyone is offering. Ive learned quite a bit so far.

The fit of the bayonet is actually what i would consider just about perfect (for me anyway). It sits completely flat to the wood in the channel, the tip is not exposed, and the fitment allows it to latch into place perfectly.

The stock is the ONLY item that is not numbers matching. It also appears that this rifle has extremely low round count. Other than the obligatory machine marks, even the internals are as close to a 10 of 10 that ive ever seen, on any “milsurp” rifle.

Before i get much further, let me also clue you all into where im at with the rifle. You have to understand that i traded a fair condition mosin for this rifle. I picked the mosin up at a gun show for $125. So needless to say, im already feeling like im waaaaay ahead of where i was at. The sks is one of my all time favorite firearms and was ecstatic to find someone that wanted to trade their pristine sks for a decent mosin.

My only real complaint about the stock is the area around the wrist, where your thumb crosses over the top. Its so wide in this area that i find myself doing the “chicken wing” in order to get my position right. I really prefer being able to tuck my arm into my body when shooting and the only way i can comfortably do this is by doing the thumb forward technique, instead of over the top. I know it sounds picky, but its what i prefer.

Ive been out of work for a while so i cant afford most of the stocks out there. Im good with wood and metal, so i figured i would see what i can do on my own, if i can find an affordable option.

Im not worried about the aftermarket sights, scope rails, bipods, etc, etc, etc.  i just want to keep the historic air and get it to fit me better. I would really prefer to just find a wooden stock that is physically sound and modify it myself. I enjoy cleaning, sanding and finishing projects.

Besides maybe a little white tail hunting, some range trips, and use as a secondary home defense rifle, its not going to see a whole lot of use. I have other rifles for that kinda stuff.

Thanks again for all the help/responses everyone.

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Offline firstchoice

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Re: Paratrooper replacement stock
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2018, 02:43:17 AM »
I have a mismatched 11 million /26\ Para, (CJA SFLD, MI import), in a folding stock. I say mismatched, it has all non-numbered parts on it. It came to me this way. The bayonet is like yours, as far as fit. The only thing I noticed at first was that I couldn't install the cleaning rod because the bayonet wouldn't close on it. I had to notch the bayonet collar just enough to allow it to close. After that, it was all good. I'm not sure on the brand of these folders, (Advanced Technology Ultralight?), but they made a bunch of them. I wouldn't recommend the folders for anything besides being a compact little gun for enclosed areas. A folder on the little Para does make for a compact little carbine, though.

Did yours come with a cleaning rod? The Para cleaning rods are a bit tough to find, (in my experience, anyway). If you have it, hang onto it.

The only Chinese stocks that I can think of with a more narrow wrist area would be the phenolic "Jungle' stocks. I have both styles, the spike and the blade. Both are at 1.185" wide at the wrist, as opposed to 1.485" and 1.420" wide at the wrist on two different Chinese wood stocks that I have laying near me. So, significant difference. I'm not sure about availability on the spiker Jungle stocks nowadays, though.

The only standard length aftermarket stock that I can attest to is the Advanced Technolgy's glass filled nylon Monte Carlo offering. It's a bit heavy, though. It has a raised cheekpiece and may be alright for a bench rest, scoped rifle. Not sure what it would do for a Para style carbine, though.

A lot is going to be determined by the desired use for the Para. If it's just a collector's piece, you're good to go. If you're wanting to shoot it a lot, you may want to modify another wood stock or look into other aftermarket desgns.The SKS is a great, all-around milsurp shooter. The Para model makes it a bit more compact. The folding stock makes the Para even more compact.

As always, YRMV. These are just my .02 worth of WAG's and what little actual info that I can pass on. Good luck!  thumb1

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Offline Chase the fizz

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Re: Paratrooper replacement stock
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2018, 05:13:44 PM »
Thank you. I think im leaning towards finding another wood stock that will fit and just modify it myself.  I dont have much cash to put into it and dont really like most of the aftermarket stocks anyway. I just cant bring myself to start sanding on the stock thats on it. Its just too nice.

I would like to the jungle stock that was mentioned. I dont think ive ever seen one.
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Offline firstchoice

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Re: Paratrooper replacement stock
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2018, 02:41:18 AM »
I'll take a few pics of the Chinese phenolic Jungle stock and post them here on your thread. It may be tomorrow, though.

Is your current gas tube a one piece, or a two piece? If you find another stock set with gas tube, I wonder if you'd be better off just keeping both matching sets of wood together, and keep the wooden handguards on their current gas tubes? Original pins and such are always nice, rather than possibly having marked up and uneven work.

I remembered that I also have one of those Tapco "T6 Collapsible Stock", in the digital camo pattern. But it's in blade bayonet configuation. That stock is light and the upper handguard has a built in rail for optics.

I don't have any old Chinese wooden SKS stocks to offer you for your project, unfortunately. The extras that I have are all earmarked for a project I just haven't found yet. lol

I'll get the pics of the Jungle stock posted tomorrow. Later...

firstchoice

Offline Chase the fizz

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Re: Paratrooper replacement stock
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2018, 01:42:47 AM »
Much appreciated. Curious to see this jungle stock.

If it would fit mine, what would you want for it?
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Offline Justin Hell

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Re: Paratrooper replacement stock
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2018, 06:54:07 AM »
Never having had a 'jungle' stock...I am not sure about whether between the two versions, what they exactly work on.
They are not likely to be a lot different than a wood stock, in shape...and will not lend themselves to being modified. They are made of a material that I cannot fathom appreciating any kind of sanding to shape them.  I believe these were made long before the concept of a 'paratrooper' model was conceived. 

Even if it is the spike version, the bayonet channel likely isn't wide enough for the chubby end of a shortened bayonet.  You might be able to use a router, any ugliness might be hidden by the bayonet...I would fear cracking it almost as much as what that might smell like. :)

I did find that I do have one paratrooper stock, but it is for a pinned barrel and won't work for you.  The one on it's way has been delayed by five days, but minutes ago arrived in my nearest city, so I should have it by Monday.

You might consider looking for a Ram-Line (now Champion) stock...they are more slender at the wrist and are so lightweight they barely add to the weight of the rest of the gun.  They are also very slender at the end where you can carefully grind out a channel for a bayonet, I have done it before. Unfortunately, I had to shorten the stock dramatically to work with a really screwy Chinese DB SKS. It is too short now for anything but that gun. I can't bring myself to use it since finding a gorgeous stock, and refinishing it.   You will have to sacrifice wood for plastic though.

You probably can find the right stock on eBay pretty easily though. Avoid Yugos, those won't work for you...and they are aplenty right now. Study the inletting on your stock around the recoil lug area....as well as the distance it resides in, from the side... in relation to the more likely pictures you will see of that area. The most crucial area of an SKS stock is rarely photographed. It can be really tricky to get the right one, it took several attempts to find a wood stock for my first SKS, which is a short lug too.  For some crazy reason, the only stock I have found that fit it properly was a blade stock....I gave in and ground my U stock ferrule into a V and put a blade on it instead of a spike.

One sure thing for a short lug is if you can find an inverted take down lever stock, which has an inletting above the inlet for the safety, right below the takedown lever. If you do find one...keep that one, modify if needed for your bayonet width, but don't alter it otherwise, those are pretty uncommon stocks, and the people who need one will hate you for even modding the bayo channel. :)   Then you can alter your current stock without worry of the $50 or so resell difference with a mismatched stock....which is where you are anyway.

A little patience and you can find the right one to keep it in a condition as it sits now, you could go ahead and mod your current stock to your tastes...and if you love it, keep it....without worry of ever needing to make it 'normal' again. But be forewarned, the wood used on Chinese stocks is the least forgiving wood I have ever applied sandpaper to. It is fiberous.
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Offline firstchoice

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Re: Paratrooper replacement stock
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2018, 09:12:23 AM »
Much appreciated. Curious to see this jungle stock.

If it would fit mine, what would you want for it?

Photobucket was a pain last night, so I finally gave up and finished this morning.

Pics of the spiker Jungle stock...









Side-by-side with a Chinese wood blade-bayo stock, showing the difference in wrist/grip width and other areas...





















Some of the other stocks I spoke of in the previous posts...





I took a Chinese Para bayonet and laid it in the stock's bayo groove, flat side down. It's reverse of how you would install it, but it will give you an idea about how much material would have to be removed to make the Para bayonet fit in the phenolic stock.









I don't think there would be much more than 1/16", at most, of stock material to remove for Para bayonet installation. A good Dremel Tool or die grinder would make quick work of it. (If you do end up doing it, be sure to do it in a well ventilated area and use a mask and eye protection for safety.)

The upper handguard that came with the phenolic stock looks to be some type of hard plastic, rather than the phenolic glass filled nylon. I always thought one of the "Tickler" handguards would match more in construction, durability, and it would definitely look better.

While my wife would probably love to start selling off these things I've collected over the years, I'm not selling anything just yet. These are just suggestions from items that have gone through my hands. Hope it helps. I'm not sure what the availability of these things are now, but I do hear about them coming up for sale now and then.

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Re: Paratrooper replacement stock
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2018, 01:40:27 PM »
Wow FC, that's quite the variation of handguards:


What's the story on the 2 blonde ones in the center, do they even have any finish on them?

I love the variation across the table.  The cheese grater really rounds things out nicely.  Do you have any of the plastic hanguards with the large oval ventilation holes in them?  I can't remember who made them, but I always thought they looked sharp!
      

Offline Justin Hell

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Re: Paratrooper replacement stock
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2018, 07:18:21 PM »
+1 on the handguard collection...I have about that many spares, but they are all cheese graters or plane jane black ATI...only two spares in wood.

The handguard you are referring to RM is likely the Choate. They are nice...
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Offline firstchoice

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Re: Paratrooper replacement stock
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2018, 07:59:18 PM »
Wow FC, that's quite the variation of handguards:


What's the story on the 2 blonde ones in the center, do they even have any finish on them?

I love the variation across the table.  The cheese grater really rounds things out nicely.  Do you have any of the plastic hanguards with the large oval ventilation holes in them?  I can't remember who made them, but I always thought they looked sharp!

Hey RM! I always had my eye out at gun shows., etc., for handguards and stock sets. Slowly picked up the small collection that I have. It comes in handy when trying to match a new stock w/handguard, or replacing a damaged one.

The two blond HG's are NOS, still in some kind of onion paper for storage. They are finished and shellacked. A couple pics:




One of my NIB Beta Arms SKS-30's in background to show the similarity in the blonde shade. The NOS handguards do have more clear coat on them than does the Beta Arms SKS-30's wood. The SKS-30 really doesn't have much in the way of a shiny coat to the shellac. Beautiful, but dull finish.




Some of them have really nice grain patterns in the wood.




Even an old, blotchy Russian...



I don't have any handguards with the large oval ventilation holes in them. Are you talking about the HG's that were used on the K-Sport Parka Para's?





The Ramline folding stock pictured above came with a HG with the oval vent holes, as well. I don't know if they were ever sold seperately, though.




firstchoice


Offline Chase the fizz

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Re: Paratrooper replacement stock
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2018, 08:40:00 PM »
Ok, i stand corrected. I really like the way that jungle stock looks. I think thats what im going to go looking for primarily, and then consider wood from there as a back up.

Thank you for all of the great pics and info. Thats one heck of a parts collection you have going.

And please let me know if you decide to part with any of those stocks.
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Re: Paratrooper replacement stock
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2018, 10:01:20 PM »
Awesome FC!  The black Ramline with the ribs was the one I was thinking of.  I didn't remember that the K-Sports Parka paras looked similar, though now that I think about it, it makes sense why I like those so much!! 

Gotta love the variation in all the OEM hardware though. Some of these SKSs were works of art right off the assy. line.  thumb1