49/50 Tula SKS

[krislhull]

In November, I picked up a Tula SKS off of Gunbroker, and from the photos on the listing, there was no way to tell what it was other than a Tula SKS.

• 720242159 | Russian SKS 7.62 x 39 Great Condition | 10 | $595.00  | Uncertain | Uncertain | Refurbished | Good | ШH760 | Likely a '50.

I asked the seller for more photos, including the top cover, and all visible S/Ns to verify that they all matched. Upon receiving the photos, I knew I wanted this rifle. The top cover was marked 1949, with refurb markings. Based on a search of what other Tula SKS were going for, I decided to hit the BIN at $595, as there was what appeared to be a heated bidding battle brewing over it.

While I waited for the rifle to arrive at my FFL, I started to do a little research into it, and after talking to others on a couple of the SKS Facebook groups, as well as from looking at a few websites, this very easily could be a heavily refurbished 1949, or it could be a 1950 transitional SKS. It is lacking the looped takedown lever for the top cover, and it has the 45 degree gasblock, but I have read on various sources that those were two items that were sometimes replaced in refurb. The stock was replaced at refurb, and it retains its original early style bolt and carrier. The ferrule for the bayonet has been modified to fit a blade bayonet, instead of a cruciform. Beyond that, I've got nothing.

[running-man]

A few dings against it being a true '49:

The receiver cover has a two line S/N instead of a single line:


The receiver cover takedown lever is a late style, not the early hoop.  In my experience, this is one of the least swapped out parts on any SKS45:


Every single gun with a Ш<?> prefix in the survey has been either a verified '50 or a '50 cover with '50 features:
Ш   А   1049
Ш   Г   169
Ш   Г   1058
Ш   К   27
Ш   К   37
Ш   К   96
Ш   К   1076
Ш   Н   3113
Ш   О   1237
Ш   О   2219
Ш   О   2419
Ш   О   2659
Ш   О   3136
Ш   Я   125

Here is ШН3113 which looks quite a bit like your purchase feature-wise:





Your gun likely has a replacement '49 cover on it.  Not unusual to see the weld blob on the stock ferrule where the blade bayo V-groove is in a '50 either.  All in all, you have quite a nice gun. 

[jstin2]

I have a 49 refurbished SKS similar to yours. Bolt is forced matched ( original S/N is slashed and new one engraved).  Your stock ferrule probably was not modified for a blade. Ferrules for a spike were bottom pinned and blades were top pinned. Ferrules for a spike are slightly smaller to fit tapered spike stock although a regular stock could be shaved down to fit a smaller ferrule. But then you would also have to cut a V notch. Mine also has a 45 degree gas port. Stock ferrule and gas port were probably replaced at refurb. I found out a month ago how to safely move the stock ferrule. Out of curiosity, I moved ferrule to see if was bottom pinned also. Groove was only at top indicating the barrel may have been replaced also at refurb. unless 49s also came with a blade bayonet. And as with yours the latch cover lever is solid(no eyelet) but it is for the 49/50 receiver cover. S/N on mine is wo 3249. R-M, I will take some pictures and add to this post. My cover is 49 and has a refurb mark
.
https://ibb.co/album/fVeoVa

[pcke2000]

to RM:

Do all 1949 in your database have 'single-line' s/n on receiver cover? Thank you!

[krislhull]

All in all, you have quite a nice gun. 

I am definitely pleased with it, and have no regrets spending what I spent on it. I've had it for two months now, and still have yet to toke it out and shoot it! Every time I have tried to go to the range it has either been raining heavily or something else has come up. Ill make it this month, though, thats for sure!

[jstin2]

Krislhull - As you can see from the pictures that I posted and it being a 49 cover, there should be a very good chance that yours is also a refurbed 49. I know from experience that several proofs have to be made in order to prove that it is so.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Every single gun with a Ш<?> prefix in the survey has been either a verified '50 or a '50 cover with '50 features:
Ш   А   1049
Ш   Г   169
Ш   Г   1058
Ш   К   27
Ш   К   37
Ш   К   96
Ш   К   1076
Ш   Н   3113
Ш   О   1237
Ш   О   2219
Ш   О   2419
Ш   О   2659
Ш   О   3136
Ш   Я   125

[running-man]

to RM:

Do all 1949 in your database have 'single-line' s/n on receiver cover? Thank you!

I have no records of '49 covers, without refurb markings or a blade bayonet that are dual line. That's one heck if a coincidence in my opinion.

[running-man]

One thing to think about: I believe there are so many '49 covers on 'closely related' '50 guns because of the commonality of the early reciver covers (that these covers actually fit properly w/o any modifications). '51 to '58 covers can go anywhere, but these early covers belong on early guns.  You still see the occassional '49 cover on a later gun, but those are very rare.

[jstin2]

For every carbine produced the S/Ns were the same. Now if the receiver and cover match, why replace it with a different cover? I cannot see why they would need to replace cover as it is the least worn out part. Enlighten me. Now as the latch pin being solid I don't know. I have a later 50 with stamped date and it still has a eyelet latch pin.

[Loose}{Cannon]

As I explained before.  Large facilities would have no interest in keeping thousands of serialized parts together. Guns come in, get stripped down, dunked in a solution to remove bluing etc, fillet weld the old numbers, and re-blue.   Poof.....  New parts to make new guns with. 

[jstin2]

I know that in Canada they throw the magazines into bin and pin them to 5 rounds. And you sometimes or not get the same back (depending on importer). But I have not heard that at refurb, that they filet welded the S/Ns and then stamped the receiver cover to match receiver. Sounds like a make work project that would not be needed if cover was matching and not damaged.

[Justin Hell]

I would say for the most part this appears to be a refurbed late 50, but the head scratcher is how the heck did a 49 cover mate up with a later takedown lever?   I suppose you could easily drill out the hole on a 49 cover to allow for the larger pin, and then a tad on the hole on the receiver as well...but this would be a first seeing that for me.

I would like to see pics of the hole in the cover, and possibly measurements of the actual pin's diameter.  It certainly wouldn't hurt to see the barrel/receiver joint for markings too.

The blobbed V ferrule is very indicative of the late 50 timeline, as is the 45 degree gas block. The only thing that makes zero sense is the 49 cover/late takedown lever.

I would chalk this one up to shenanigans during refurb vs. a component timeline candidate.  I can only hope expect when I get my 45 degree Russian it is so...odd.

[jstin2]

Justin Hell -  I included a side pictures of receiver cover. And it does not look like it has been modified.

[Loose}{Cannon]

I know that in Canada they throw the magazines into bin and pin them to 5 rounds. And you sometimes or not get the same back (depending on importer). But I have not heard that at refurb, that they filet welded the S/Ns and then stamped the receiver cover to match receiver. Sounds like a make work project that would not be needed if cover was matching and not damaged.

Good thing what I tell you isn't conjecture, we know they did this for a fact.

[jstin2]

L-C,  As I mentioned several times before, I am still learning more about the SKS. But in the same token, anything that is new should be debated and reviewed.                Justin-Hell - I added some pictures to my album, ones that you had requested.

https://ibb.co/album/fVeoVa

[krislhull]

I would say for the most part this appears to be a refurbed late 50, but the head scratcher is how the heck did a 49 cover mate up with a later takedown lever?   I suppose you could easily drill out the hole on a 49 cover to allow for the larger pin, and then a tad on the hole on the receiver as well...but this would be a first seeing that for me.

I would like to see pics of the hole in the cover, and possibly measurements of the actual pin's diameter.  It certainly wouldn't hurt to see the barrel/receiver joint for markings too.

The blobbed V ferrule is very indicative of the late 50 timeline, as is the 45 degree gas block. The only thing that makes zero sense is the 49 cover/late takedown lever.

I would chalk this one up to shenanigans during refurb vs. a component timeline candidate.  I can only hope expect when I get my 45 degree Russian it is so...odd.

I will try and get some measurements later today, and will post a photo of the hole on the cover. Anyone know what the pin diameter should be for a 49/50 Tula? I will also compare the measurements I get to my Yugo M59/66 just in case.

[Loose}{Cannon]

same token, anything that is new should be debated and reviewed.         

Of course....      So whats new? 

[Loose}{Cannon]

Nothing wrong with these two components either, but yet they scrubbed the serials and installed them on a dif receiver at refurb.

Even a blind man can see the remnants of the process on these two, other times.... Not so much, if at all.


 

[Phosphorus32]

Nothing wrong with these two components either, but yet they scrubbed the serials and installed them on a dif receiver at refurb.

Even a blind man can see the remnants of the process on these two, other times.... Not so much, if at all.


 

Dang, they had the 16 year old trainee working the grinder that day. No vodka ration for you Дмитрий!