Non-chrome lined Chinese SKS

[Boris Badinov]

How common are they?

Subject came up on another forum.

I read somewhere (can't for the life of me find the source) that there were a small number of type56 produced without chrome lining after the Soviets cut the supply of chromium and before the Chinese developed their own chroming process.

But were there other factories that produced non-chrome lined barrels much later--well after the chinese had implemented their own chroming process?

Thanks,
Boris

[Stoned_Oli]

Don't forget about the short lug thing...  Era dating might be helpful to solving this one.

[Boris Badinov]

Good point.
Still waiting for a pic of the guy's muzzle.

But, yes the rilfe in question is a triangle arsenal (similar in design to quadruple triangle '?5') with a a pinned barrel. Cut to 16.5".

[running-man]

I agree with Oil, era dating is the way to go.  I'd go one step farther and try to answer this question first: "When did the Soviet Union purportedly cut off chromium supplies to China?"   Sino-Soviet split, shortly afterwards, long afterwards?  Then I'd take a range surrounding that date and see what turns up.  I'm skeptical about the claim though.  I've never seen a type 56 (either carbine or assault rifle) that didn't have a chrome lined bore.  Of course, there are lots of things I haven't seen! 

[Boris Badinov]

Thanks RM.

Where in the Heel did I read this about the Sino-Soviet split and the cutoff of chromium?

[Stoned_Oli]

Good point.
Still waiting for a pic of the guy's muzzle.

But, yes the rilfe in question is a triangle arsenal (similar in design to quadruple triangle '?5') with a a pinned barrel. Cut to 16.5".

It's not a pinned Barrel, it's a short lug threaded barrel.

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300547

[running-man]

I would suspect that since it's a paratrooper that the telltale chrome flashed radius at the muzzle isn't going to be visible.   

Arsenal sure looks like /?5\ to me too Boris.  I suspect it's a scrubbed and restamped gun though, esp. with the quantity of non numbered components it has.  S/N is non-standard though the arsenal stamp is in the correct spot.   It's even a non-standard S/N when comared to a std. letter series gun as it has a 5th digit shown as a leading zero after the letter.  The Chinese never did that on those guns as far as the data shows, five digits rolling from 9999 to 10000 yes, but never 01234.  Those 3's are also in a very new font, the 3's of the letter gun / Sino-Soviet split era were far different looking: 



Earliest /?5\ gun I've ever seen is a year 11 gun. 

It's a neat question though.  It'll be interesting to see if it is indeed chrome plated or not.  djvdz66 says he's seen a few non-chrome barrels, it would be interesting to see what series those might have come from. 

[Greasemonkey]

Thanks RM.

Where in the Heel did I read this about the Sino-Soviet split and the cutoff of chromium?

China has used chrome or a at least tinkered with it, even if by accident as far back as 2200 years ago..
http://www.chemistry-blog.com/2015/09/22/the-chrome-plated-mystery-of-the-terracotta-armys-swords/

There are reports of an analysis of the artefacts conducted by the Chinese Research Institute of Nonferrous Metals and Chinese Academy of Geological Sciences (although I am unable to find the primary data). The suggestions is that a 10-15 micron coating containing chromium oxide (at up to 2% chromium) was found. The conclusion; for millennia this thin layer protected objects from the ravages of time and chemistry.

Not everything can be blamed on Russia    Besides, tiny little Japan was chrome plating bores on the Type 99 and even later Type 38 Arisakas, the late 30's and early '40s, I'm sure China had no real shortage of chrome, there are huge chromium deposits in the PRC controlled Tibet, and bore plating was something I'm sure went hand in hand with the Russians teaching during the SKS/Ak learning period.

Now this begs the question, or questions  ... could the bore be oxidized, or just looking dull, a hard chrome can appear dull and look boringly grey and not appear shiny like say, a bumper on '57 Plymouth Fury. Has the bore been exposed to a cleaner that reacts with chrome dulling it? Some cleaners, especially ones with harsh copper removers could cause issues. Or when the barrel was made, was the percentage of chromium different, was the method the same as those barrels before, a new factory tinkering with their mix? And has said rifle even been fired?

[Power Surge]

I would suspect that since it's a paratrooper that the telltale chrome flashed radius at the muzzle isn't going to be visible.   

You can usually see it on the chamber side as well.

[Boris Badinov]

Was there a cut off  of steel from Russia related to the sino soviet split?

I cant find the particular citation regarding chromium (books are now back at the library), and I am now thinking i may have been recalling a passage referring to the cessation of soviet supplied steel. Circa sino-soviet split.

[Boris Badinov]

Arsenal sure looks like /?5\ to me too Boris.  I suspect it's a scrubbed and restamped gun though, esp. with the quantity of non numbered components it has.

Would this also include scrubbing original arsenal stamp and then restamping with  /?5\  ? Or just the serials.?

[running-man]

I would suspect that since it's a paratrooper that the telltale chrome flashed radius at the muzzle isn't going to be visible.   

You can usually see it on the chamber side as well.

True. I guess it depends on how the guy determines that "It's not chromed"  He says that adamantly, but how does he know?  Short of a quick copper sulphate test I remain skeptical. 

[running-man]

Would this also include scrubbing original arsenal stamp and then restamping with  /?5\  ? Or just the serials.?

Hard to say.  I assume just the S/N but you never know.  It could have been a receiver blank with an arsenal stamp and no S/N. Could have had the arsenal stamp applied/reapplied at the same time as the S/N was stamped.  Could have been built that way long ago.  Best guess is as close as we will get on this one I fear. 

[Power Surge]

Am I missing the pics here??

[Boris Badinov]

Am I missing the pics here??

Link to thread is in Oli's 2nd reply

[Power Surge]

Am I missing the pics here??

Link to thread is in Oli's 2nd reply

Wow, that's a bizarre rifle. Never seen a serial like that before. Can you take a pic of the chamber side with the bolt open? And what gives you the impression it's not chrome?

[Boris Badinov]

It's not my post.

But the OP states that it is not chrome lined. Requests have been made for more photos. In particular i have requested photos of the muzzle and chamber.

[Power Surge]

It's not my post.

But the OP states that it is not chrome lined. Requests have been made for more photos. In particular i have requested photos of the muzzle and chamber.

Ohhhh...ok. Yeah, I'd like to see more pics. Or a reason why he thinks it's not chrome lined.

[Loose}{Cannon]

weird chinaman

[Loose}{Cannon]

I would suspect that since it's a paratrooper that the telltale chrome flashed radius at the muzzle isn't going to be visible.   

Arsenal sure looks like /?5\ to me too Boris.  I suspect it's a scrubbed and restamped gun though, esp. with the quantity of non numbered components it has.  S/N is non-standard though the arsenal stamp is in the correct spot.   It's even a non-standard S/N when comared to a std. letter series gun as it has a 5th digit shown as a leading zero after the letter.  The Chinese never did that on those guns as far as the data shows, five digits rolling from 9999 to 10000 yes, but never 01234.  Those 3's are also in a very new font, the 3's of the letter gun / Sino-Soviet split era were far different looking: 



Earliest /?5\ gun I've ever seen is a year 11 gun. 

It's a neat question though.  It'll be interesting to see if it is indeed chrome plated or not.  djvdz66 says he's seen a few non-chrome barrels, it would be interesting to see what series those might have come from.

Where have I seen this H3333 before?