Significance of inverted take down levers on bring backs...

[Power Surge]

So here's something that I have noticed over time, as well as spending time every night on all the various gun trader sites. We have touched on it in the past here, but never really pursued any reasoning....

Every "bring back" era Jianshe SKS that was IMPORTED into the US, has the standard take down lever. By "bring back era", I am referring to 10 mil through 14 mil guns, as those seem to make up 90% of the legitimate bring backs I've seen.

Starting with 12 mil guns, unlike imported versions, the bring backs all have inverted take down levers. Definitely 12 and 13 mils, I can't personally recall seeing a 14 mil or 15 mil bring back, so I'm not going to say for sure on those. But every single 12 and 13 mil bring back I see, has the inverted lever.

Now, the reason for the inverted lever is no big secret..... standard levers get caught on stuff in tight quarters trekking through the jungle. Inverted levers do not, since they sit flat against the stock when locked.

But this does bring up an interesting point. China was sending SKSs to aid North Vietnam. We already know they made specific guns for this reason, because of the early M21s. So China is sending M21s to NV, then they switched to just sending regular Jianshe guns about 10 mil. At some point, someone in NV says to China, "hey, can you guys make a change to the take down levers? Those things are getting caught on everything". So starting with the 12 mil, guns being sent to NV have inverted take down levers, whereas Jianshe guns staying in China continue to get the standard lever.

I know it's not a piece of information that will set the SKS world on fire, but it is an interesting observation, and it does show that China was still making specific guns for NV after the NVA and M21 rifles.

[running-man]

You were going great until you got here:

Starting with 12 mil guns, unlike imported versions, the bring backs all have inverted take down levers. Definitely 12 and 13 mils, I can't personally recall seeing a 14 mil or 15 mil bring back, so I'm not going to say for sure on those. But every single 12 and 13 mil bring back I see, has the inverted lever.

It's pretty much all 12.29 mil through all of the 14 mil /26\ series have the inverted takedown, regardless of VN bringback status.  That's just the way they chose to make them during this time period, much like the transition from bottom swivel to side swivel during the 3 million series up to the 10 million series. 

As to the why for the inverted lever, you may be correct that it has something to do with VN; I have no idea and I doubt we'll ever really know for certain.  I will say that there's really no hard evidence that supports your hypothesis.  I do know from my GB surveys that there are far more standard takedown 10 mil and 11 mil VN bringbacks than there are 12+ mils by a very wide margin.

[Power Surge]

You were going great until you got here:

Starting with 12 mil guns, unlike imported versions, the bring backs all have inverted take down levers. Definitely 12 and 13 mils, I can't personally recall seeing a 14 mil or 15 mil bring back, so I'm not going to say for sure on those. But every single 12 and 13 mil bring back I see, has the inverted lever.

It's pretty much all 12.29 mil through all of the 14 mil /26\ series have the inverted takedown, regardless of VN bringback status.  That's just the way they chose to make them during this time period, much like the transition from bottom swivel to side swivel during the 3 million series up to the 10 million series. 

As to the why for the inverted lever, you may be correct that it has something to do with VN; I have no idea and I doubt we'll ever really know for certain.  I will say that there's really no hard evidence that supports your hypothesis.  I do know from my GB surveys that there are far more standard takedown 10 mil and 11 mil VN bringbacks than there are 12+ mils by a very wide margin.

Well poop.

I guess that's why it's good to discuss this stuff 

[running-man]

It's a good observation though.   

The first 12 mil I have in my files with an inverted takedown is 12291121:



I don't know if the transition is hard and fast with all guns after a specific S/N having inverted levers or not, but I haven't found any normal takedown levers after the one I posted above.  There are not terribly many 12 mils that people are photographing out there though and 14 mils are tough to come by too.  Must be something people take for granted and simply don't post them because they are so 'common'.

[Loose}{Cannon]

So ...  Is it safe to update stuffs having the transition mid 1967?   

[Power Surge]

Well then, let's see if we can further nail this transition down . I'll update this thread with anything new that's relevant.

Here's a 12,28x,xxx that's inverted...

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/588022866

[running-man]

Nice! 

Highest S/N for 12 mil guns I have recorded is 12,351k by the way.  If we are close with the high S/N estimate and they manufactured these things anything close to consistently throughout the entire year (29.25k/month), and the 11 to 12 transition was exactly Jan 1st, then that 12,280k gun with the inverted lever was built ~mid September. 

Lots of 'ifs' there though, nothing I'd want to sign my name to!   

[montigre]

If we are close with the high S/N estimate and they manufactured these things anything close to consistently throughout the entire year (29.25k/month), and the 11 to 12 transition was exactly Jan 1st, then that 12,280k gun with the inverted lever was built ~mid September. 

Just wondering, do the Chinese use the Western New Year of January 1st to serialize their weapons or their own; the first day of new moon between January 21st and February 20th? 

[Loose}{Cannon]

If we are close with the high S/N estimate and they manufactured these things anything close to consistently throughout the entire year (29.25k/month), and the 11 to 12 transition was exactly Jan 1st, then that 12,280k gun with the inverted lever was built ~mid September. 

Just wondering, do the Chinese use the Western New Year of January 1st to serialize their weapons or their own; the first day of new moon between January 21st and February 20th?

As far as I know...  Pre 1949 they used to use the emperors year, but after that they used Jan 1

[Loose}{Cannon]

Found kn chinaweb....

In addition, 56-type semi-automatic rifle in the production process there are some stages of improvement, a typical representative of the casing latch bolt, its improvement only in the mid-production of 56-type semi-automatic rifle appeared, early and late none use. The casing cover latch before the modification is formed by riveting the latches and the latches. The front part of the latch plate is provided with a bending part designed for easy pulling. In the actual use of the bolt, it is found that it is easy to be worn The casing cover latch accidentally opens, has the security hidden danger. Therefore, the folded portion of the upper portion of the latch piece into the bottom of the front, with the butt flush , and in order to facilitate the flip, butt in the corresponding parts of a diagonal cut grooves inside. In other countries of the SKS imitation are not such improvements, can be used as identification of domestic medium-term product is an important feature.

[Justin Hell]

Interesting,

So the theory about snagging on things in the jungle was a fallacy, and the real reason for it was due to the act of racking the bolt as the cause of the accidental snagging of the normal lever.

I wonder why they changed back as they deemed it as an improvement over other countries copying 'their' design.

I feel like I caught a buzz just reading that...I had to keep going back for more before I think I got the translation through my skull....somewhere around 'riveting the latches and the latches' my internal record was skipping.