Let's look at star stamps on rear sight ladders (RSLs) - pic heavy & long

[Loose}{Cannon]

What if.   

Seeing how is was replaced with dif stamps like this 'T+K' , then they must represent the same thing, and if the star meants tula, then by this logic the 'T+K' means tula also.   

[Loose}{Cannon]

[Power Surge]

But....what if they aren't....then we can finally identify a Tula from an Izzy that has no matching cover....

[Dannyboy53]

It's almost a fair bet that my Russian may be an Izzy, the only place it has one of these stars is on the RSL. And it seems as though mine has maybe been through refurb twice as it has the Nizhyn stamp that LC identified as well as what appears could be one of the three triangle stamps to the left of it. I just can not read what is inside the triangle.

Mine is just a confusing mix-master!

[Loose}{Cannon]

So if my russian does not have it then its an izzy?   

From what RM has posted, a rework can have it or not have it. Seeing that the overwhelming majority of russians have seen some level of rework... Do you actually want to classify a mystery gun missing a cover based on such a ****ty stsndard?  Or would you be better off comparing the serials to known examples and features like we do now?

[Greasemonkey]

Just to add a little confusion especially on Russian "refurbs".....lets look at something else. Now say from 1939 to 1945, just how many K98 Mausers did Russia capture. I will bet on the order of millions, given the imports of Russian and Yugoslavian refurb Mausers a few years ago. Now, if all these markings on an SKS, SVT, Mosin or indicators of some type of refurb, reman or rebuild scheme, why wouldn't they treat a Mauser or other captured weapon the same? If my feeble memory serves me correct, the only things they did to say a K98 capture is:
they mixed parts to rebuild their captured K98 rifles, and refinished them. They sometimes peened the Swastika markings on the rifles, and/or put "X" marks on the receivers of the rifles. The Russians often numbered the K98's bolts with electro pencil. Finally they often applied a Shellac finish to the stocks like that seen on rebuilt Russian Mosin Nagant rifles. Also typically the front sight hoods are gone, and capture screws are missing.

No little star stamps saying hey, this weapon is a re"whatever" even though they claimed it as property of the CCCP, and in turn reissued them to their own troops in certain instances.

This trend kind of follows any weapon Russia captured and refreshed.

Could it not be that, maybe one factory supplied some small parts to another factory. China did it, used little side factories to produce smaller parts and ship it to the big factory.

Maybe, lets take the Izhevsk Nagant hammer, it was made and got it's little star at the Tula plant, they shipped to Izhevsk. Maybe Izhevsk fell behind on production on the little pistol hammers that month, and had several thousand pistols, but no hammers, Tula had several thousand hammers. So Tula sends the Commie pony express carrying a big bag of hammers to Izhevsk. During war time weapon production, production can be feast or famine depending on local issues and events, so they could have used, swapped and shared parts, or even divided the overall production between two factories to reach a common goal, protection of the motherland.

[Dannyboy53]

So if my russian does not have it then its an izzy?   

From what RM has posted, a rework can have it or not have it. Seeing that the overwhelming majority of russians have seen some level of rework... Do you actually want to classify a mystery gun missing a cover based on such a ****ty stsndard?  Or would you be better off comparing the serials to known examples and features like we do now?

That is not what I'm saying. Simply that mine doesn't have the star stamp on the receiver or barrel or anywhere else other than the RSL, and it's likely an Izhevsk (or however it is spelled).

The main thing I have learned about the Russian carbines since getting mine, they are just as mysterious as the Chinese...if not more so!

[Loose}{Cannon]

I was replying to PS

[Dannyboy53]

Sorry LC, your post was right after mine...thought you were addressing it!

[Loose}{Cannon]

Sorry LC, your post was right after mine...thought you were addressing it!

You posted while I was posting is all

[Power Surge]

So if my russian does not have it then its an izzy?   

Well....if we find that all Tula built rifles have it somewhere on the receiver and no Izzys have it on the receiver.....that's a pretty strong find.

I can understand refurbs having it on small parts that could have been taken off other rifles, so I understand that may not have much weight....but if we find a pattern of it on receivers or other key action parts, then that is a pretty strong case. And then from there, that could also answer the question that star RSLs are off of Tula built rifles as well.

Too bad nobody wants to check this.

[Loose}{Cannon]

if we find that all Tula built rifles have it somewhere on the receiver

Sure... Prove to me that all tulas have this mark somewhere on the barreled receiver. 

Too bad nobody wants to check this.

Three pages and counting.   

[Power Surge]

if we find that all Tula built rifles have it somewhere on the receiver

Sure... Prove to me that all tulas have this mark somewhere on the barreled receiver. 

Too bad nobody wants to check this.

Three pages and counting.   

OMG, you are going to give me a brain annyuerism. That's my whole point....  I asked for people who have Russian guns to pull the stocks and look for the smaller star on the receiver somewhere. I don't have Russians, so I can't help with this. If people check for this and we find all Tulas have the small star somewhere, or we only see them on Tulas, then that gives us more information.

[Loose}{Cannon]

I have one early featured tula and I'm not at home... Rarely am.


Everyone with a tula check yo sheet!

Better?   

[Greasemonkey]

Stars....Tula stars...uuhhmm no.  French acceptance marks






Identity crisis

[Loose}{Cannon]

 

Damn you! 

[Loose}{Cannon]

Hey PS....  Does your russian have all early 52 and older features?

[Power Surge]

Hey PS....  Does your russian have all early 52 and older features?

It's long gone, but I posted tons of pics here in this section when I got it. I think it was determined to be a 52-53 by features.

[Loose}{Cannon]

So...  Star on possible 53. 

[Loose}{Cannon]

To clarify...  I more then recognize the data showing the star is found on 'non furb' guns 52 and under as RM has provided. My opinion is simply that nobody knows what the 'meaning' of of said star is. Im challenging members of all ranks to find some solid indication without regurgitating whats been posted other places on the net. How many times has this course of action gotten the collecting community in trouble time and time again?

This is a good thread and the data collection and discussion is what makes us sksfiles. Your going to have dif opinions and ideas throughout process before coming to a general consensus on whats most likely. Lets not toss out avenues because they dont fit the narrative.