Where are they?

[CARBINE]

could it be they just used the last 3 serial numbers from a longer number like 110 would have been off gun 56110 for an example?

[Justin Hell]

pulls head out of butt and deleted my obviously confused post. sorry.

[Greasemonkey]

Then explain the lonely 5 etched into a part.  We know 1-99 exists, this much we agree on, so is this rifles #005 gas tube if so, then is that #238s gas tube..





Most every other nation serializing parts would serial long numbers with the length of the tube, Russia, Romania and China all display that trait, given these are simple low 3 digit numbers not 4,5 or 6, they just might have stuck them on any flat surface

Like this serial on a Romanian gas tube.

[Loose}{Cannon]

I dont recall anyone saying they dont exist..   


Either you have a real mixmaster or those are the numbers we find all over yugos that have nothing to do with the serial.  Most often they are matched to the bottom lug #, but if they came off another gun at refurb, it wont match anything.

May not even be a serial # you looking at goose....   Bet RM has some good examples of this..

[Loose}{Cannon]

In fact, I know they are the commonly seen production/assembly numbers like we have seen on later guns... These are just low because they are early.  Not serial numbers....


Bottom of my LB serial 080 having an ep # matching the barrel number....  Which is a very low barrel #.  Further evidence the LBs were first.  59/66 guns have pretty high lug numbers. 

[Greasemonkey]

Ok, then....why would they go strictly off an "assembly" number for small parts that the barrel/receiver has assigned in the beginning. Then whats the purpose of the serial number if pieces and parts are "assembly" numbered? Why an extra, a redundant set of numbers during the manufacturing process, only to end with the serial being tracked, logged in books, the "assembly" number is or has become an after thought by that point?  How come the stock, a major component has the serial, not the barrel lug number, same with the bolt, the most critical part due to headspace, serialized, not "assemblized"

Why do so many later rifles exhibit serials on parts such as the trigger assy, top cover, box mags, etc. I have a 81xxx serial etched in a M59 top cover, that sure ain't a barrel/receiver lug number.

Being all these examples came from M59s, is it too far of a reach to say, maybe, just maybe, they are, or could be serials..the M59s being the oldest of the bunch would have been usually the first to see refurb first.  So, a refurb/repair facility starts up, the rifles get new unmarked parts at first, because there isn't many used pieces/parts to choose from and after a period of time they could get a mix of new and reusable already inspected, once numbered reblued parts. Later down the road, the only time new pieces are used, is if they have no used parts.  And farther down the line, the mix of M59 parts and serials is overwhelmed by the M59/66 used parts, part use and elimination through attrition.

It's a stretch, but it seems they preferred the M59/66 series, kicking the M59 to the side, which could account for the M59/66s extreme production and the M59s comparatively limited production, maybe they just refurbed the M59s, crated all the remaining stores of them up, and treated them like the M48 Mausers etc, and strictly used the later variant and Ak once numbers were sufficient for all troops.


It's just a number. mine is way lower, so whats that mean...not much.

[Loose}{Cannon]

In fact...  Thats exactly where we see those production numbers.  If those are serials... Then where are the new serials?    Hmmmmmm?     

Production # on my C block m59 is 660...

[Loose}{Cannon]

Because serials came last and they had no idea what said serial will be when being assembled and fitted.   

[Loose}{Cannon]

This is a serial #...




This.....  Not so much.  Same gun as above. Matches the barrel lug.  Phos32 confirmed this in the HG thread








The 660 on C-block.....  Not a serial.

[Loose}{Cannon]

So...  That makes your number a production number and its NOT 116.... Its 911.   

[Loose}{Cannon]

[CARBINE]

Love it!!

[Greasemonkey]

Well there in lies the conundrum... #100-15xxx ain't been seen to verify.

I'm not really impressed, I expected so much more  ...............mmmmkay..   Carbine, go mind yo Russian stuff.....

My "C" block 24xxx is 531...  and whats the point,   I feel it coming....the "what if" game.....   cause I see a little teeny tiny flaw in the production numbering scheme...

I wrote a theory, wanna hear it, here it go.....

in theory, if they used production numbers only and not the serial, lets grasp, say 1-999, they make it to number 999 on the barrel shank/receiver and start over at 1. Then in the first 50,000, there will be at least 50 repeating production numbers.  What then, what happens when two are side by side with the same production numbers, in the same serial block with different serials. The odds are there, 1 in a 1000, it could happen, I don't recall a barrel assembly xxxa or xxxb.   Is there a 4 and or a 5 digit barrel number, even with an extra digit, a 4 digit production number, you still have 5 exactly the same production numbers in the first 50,000 rifles. Even then the odds are 1 in 10,000, since you want to play odds so much.

I say tear them all apart, every M59, see if a 4 digit number appears at some point.  In the above theory and your very own production number theory, there are say, at least 50 mags, gas tubes, trigger guards, top covers, yadda yadda, oh and barrels and receivers all with the same production number marked in them.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Welp...  They atleast went up to 23 THOUSAND 892.   

Besides...  These numbers are redundant after its serialized. 

[Greasemonkey]

Ignorant, dumb, stupid,    why two set a numbers. You were a little flaccid

Because serials came last and they had no idea what said serial will be when being assembled and fitted.

Why not use the production number as the serial, cause in 7xx Hundred Thousand xxx serial numbers and only a production number of 23 THOUSAND 892 , chances are, there are duplicate production numbers through out production...

Cause the serial is about 30 times higher than the production number.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Perhaps there are duplicate production numbers... But wouldn't they be redundant after serialized?   .      Dont blame be dude... I it.  Ask the Serbs. 


Make that 94,566 on H275402








Obviously a rework with 60277 on the tube.




The serials....

[bbush44]

 

[Greasemonkey]

And if there are duplicate barrel assembly numbers, then it opens the door to duplicate parts with duplicate assembly numbers.

Redundant as they may be, and if thats what they etched, how did a M59 top cover get 81xxx etched in it? 

Ok, P32 has a serial of 7xxxxx, assembly number of 23xxx,  is 23xxx the number of rifles built up to that point....naw I'd guess not. but with the serial 30 times higher than assembly number, then maybe there are at least 30 repeating production numbers at that point..

[Loose}{Cannon]

I found the # EPed under the cover and to the rear to be the serial.  Its that way on all my Yugos.   

[Loose}{Cannon]

Note..

I dont mean production numbers as in thats how many made... I mean it as they are simple numbers to keep fitted parts together during the assembly process.

A better term would be 'assembly' numbers.