Where are they?

[Greasemonkey]

Ok, we have:

Long Barrel Yugo M59s are supposedly #001-#099.

the "B" series M59s started, I don't know, we'll say at around #15,xxx
then "C" series M59 followed and then the "D" M59/66 and so on and on....but,

Where are the rest of the 3 digit hundred series and the whole 4 digit series, even the early 5 digit 10,xxx-15,xxx Yugoslavian serials, maybe the "A" series?

I know a Yugo SKS serial #116 exists or at least was made,  somewhere.  My long barrel has the box mag to it... so, they do exist, somewhere..

You can't tell me no one here has wondered, or does just no one really care 

I got half interested in this question started digging and looking, for what it's worth, I didn't find much, an if I looked at another photo of a Yugoslavian serial I'd probably go nuts. I didn't really care what was typed up, written or documented by others, I wanted to see a photo of one or a bunch, just to satisfy.... Jimmy. So, he will leave me alone..

They wouldn't have just produced a hundred or so Long Barrels, quit for a while pondering "what's next", then just pick up all willy nilly at the 15,xxx "B" series outta the blue. It's obvious they had production capability, what's to gain by skipping those 15,xxx rifles, why did they stop or did they stop? Are they stuck in some dark dank Serbian bat cave, but it's just that series of rifles stuck there, maybe it caved in  ...

Or better yet, just where are all of those fricken estimated 15,xxx rifles...

[Phosphorus32]

I have wondered about it too, especially lately when I became an accidental hardcore Yugoslavian SKS collector 

I'd love to have an A series but I've seen as much evidence of them as you have...0

The logic is there. Since the rest of their SN system seems to be progressive, there ought to be an A, or at least something other than a hundred or so experimental barrel length variants of the "no-letter series" to account for that missing 15,000.

[running-man]

Same here Jon.  I personally think the A series is a myth, but I've got nothing on why we only see B's from 15k on.  Were the LBs produced before the 59's or were they produced between the 59s and the 56/66s (or were they produced sometime after the 59/66)?  I don't think we can even answer that seemingly simple question (yet).

Here's another one that has always bothered me:

B block M59s have been seen up to what, 154XX?  The earliest C Block M59 I've seen is 238XX.  Where are guns 15500 to 23700?  That's 8200 MIAs!  Do you think they carved out blocks of S/N's beforehand and just never got to them?

[Greasemonkey]

I could see a little missed production, the change from the adjustable front sight and lop the barrel off 2 inches shorter, but in the grand scheme of things, that's trivial stuff. You've all ready done the hard part, it's simply just calibrate the machine for the standard form factor M59 production.  But, as anal and OCD with numbers as they were, I don't see them skipping, they apparently didn't skip in the 20+ years of production following I could see.

Being scrubbed and refurbed, that’s a stretch, some always miss the process, lazy solider or hungover armoury guy, it happens.. and what’s the advantage of changing the serial from A1234 to D56789, there ain't one.  All the ones that have the highly toted books, anyone ever seen the serial changed or altered... nope.

And they just didn't go poof into thin air, the magic communist gun fairy just didn't disappear them..

Maybe they were sold off, maybe they are sittin on the dock of the bay, watching time go by.   

[bbush44]

Found them..

[martin08]

Perhaps there was a plan to have another arsenal besides Zastava, and certain blocks of serial numbers were pre-assigned.

We see that block assignment often in the US, when multiple arsenals are contracted to build the same model.

So, maybe we aren't looking for guns at all, but an arsenal which never got off the ground.

[Loose}{Cannon]

I think all the early guns without the prefix were more/less the As....

LBs made between the standard length 59 and the 59/66?.....   

It goes 1,2,3,4,5,6.....  You get the idea.   

[Greasemonkey]

Perhaps there was a plan to have another arsenal besides Zastava, and certain blocks of serial numbers were pre-assigned.

We see that block assignment often in the US, when multiple arsenals are contracted to build the same model.

So, maybe we aren't looking for guns at all, but an arsenal which never got off the ground.

It's an idea...and, I've seen "mention" of them, and at least one 4 digit 2xxx serial was noted or "documented"...but with no photo, there really is no proof of actual existence, short of a spread sheet from the ancient era of the internet with a number chiseled in it... unless we want to "assume" the written word is the gospel, and no fat fingering the keyboard took place or dyslexia had set in.  This is why I choose and tried to exclude this info. I would guess #116 exists, or at least was made, why else have the serial or numbers electro-pencilled on a mag.



And why another arsenal, Zastava has made everything from guns to cars to heavy trucks, it's not like they don't have the manufacturing capability to suit the nation. Even the old Zastava Yugo manufacturing plant today cranks out the Fiat 500.

I personally think the A series is a myth, but I've got nothing on why we only see B's from 15k on.  Were the LBs produced before the 59's or were they produced between the 59s and the 56/66s (or were they produced sometime after the 59/66)?  I don't think we can even answer that seemingly simple question (yet).

Heck at this point, anything is possible.. maybe they ended up in Vietnam

[running-man]

I think all the early guns without the prefix were more/less the As....

LBs made between the standard length 59 and the 59/66?.....   

It goes 1,2,3,4,5,6.....  You get the idea.   

We have instances where numbers have rolled over.  Albania did it at least three different times. Russia did it consistently with the reuse of Cyrillic prefixes from previous years.  Heck even the Chinese did it with scrubbed guns all the time:

 


The difference between the Chinese examples and the Yugo LB's is that we *know* the Chinese guns had an order to them and there's a definite progression there.  We can use feature sets, S/N stampings, stocks, RSLs, etc. to connect the dots and follow that path.  The LB Yugos are just there.  So few of them, so different from any other Yugo, but how can we say definitively "Yup they had to be first, see the S/N is #43 while the B blocks are B15300, it's so obvious".  If that's the case, then the NVA's must be 1962, 1963, 1964, and 1965 built right? 

Not trying to bust your chops, but if they are first (I lean towards them being first too BTW), let's find a solid reason supported by data to put them there. 

[Loose}{Cannon]

If that's the case, then the NVA's must be 1962, 1963, 1964, and 1965 built right?

Apples/oranges...   The nva 'theory' is bases on a prefix, the LB not so much.

I specifically remember Dans description stating he knows #001 is in a museum.  If there are an estimated 100 of these, whats so important about #001 and not #100 if they are going for last?   

High C 492xx
Low  D 5000x

Its pretty clear they rolled right on into the 59/66 from the 59. 

The chinese examples of crubbed guns etc you show above all have red flags indicating such...  You see any red flags on your LB other then a mismatch? 

[Loose}{Cannon]

Just like everything else...  If there is more evidence pointing to option A rather then option B.... I'm going with A until proven otherwise.     

[Greasemonkey]

Then explain the C44xxx and C50xxx with long barrel features...why some had 2 inch longer barrels, some 1.5 inch longer barrels, why 1 or 2 had a standard issue front sight.

The barrel length and front sight, eehhh, easy to blow a hole in it, refurb... But, those 2 random long barrels kicking around where they shouldn't be. Why reserial an early rifle, naw, waste of time, Why stick a used long barrel on a newer receiver, you already have made many barrels, just use a new one.

Spare parts laying around?  So, they started at B15xxx after only making 99, cause #100 aint never been seen, and then randomly make it to C44xxx and then on to C50xxx. Was it "oh, lookie, odd ball parts, let's install'em", or was it they were made at the same time and the long ones get in the wrong bin and stamped, or they were found in a mop closet in the secret lab at the factory from years gone by when they played Frankenstein with the rifles and they had no serial, so they stamped them within the regular serial range reflecting current production to simply use those 2 rifles.


Who's to even say, that 100-15xxx were not all long barrels  .........ain't anyone seen one to say whether or not they were long, standard barrels or maybe even a hybrid of both styles.

I'll take option C,  C is for conjecture  

[Loose}{Cannon]

I guess they could be long barrels, but the odds are extremely against it.  We have 20 some-odd LBs on the list and 1 of 15 thousand guns just happened to not be seen?  What are the odds if you write 1 through 15,000 on little pieces of paper, mix them up, and then randomly draw 20 only to pick all under 100?  750 to 1?  I have to go with the odds on this one........

The two random LBs with standard front post and high serial number is just further evidence the 1-100 LBs were made first.  It clearly shows they had no problem numbering an LB in its proper place/time in the serial sequence. 

Btw...  The 50456 has NO prefix.

[Loose}{Cannon]

And who is to say they are not all Bs or simply dont have a serial prefix?  ...   The odds are much more in favor of one of these two being the case. 

[running-man]

I think the piece of paper exercise isn't a good comparison for the 'randomness'.  What were the odds that two Yugos bought from XYZ retailer in 2005 would be consecutively numbered?  Not great.  But then consider what the odds would have been of that same scenario for the recent PW imports.  Pretty darn good because many crates crates contained various consecutive guns! 


There could be LB's from S/N 100+ out there, just the crates haven't been found/imported.  Maybe a large block was destroyed, maybe it was never built.  We really have no idea and can't concretely say "They don't exist above ~100" because we honestly don't know.  We know there's this massive hole in the S/N progression, but why is it there?  Why a 50000 S/N'd LB?  Why doesn't it have a C or D prefix?  Does that S/N mean this gun was built *after* the C's but before the D's (i.e. in between the M59 and M59/66)?  The likelihood is that you're right LC, but even though it's a stretch to say otherwise, it's not out of the realm of possibility to say that these guns were experimental guns fabricated during the period between the 59 and 59/66 when the Yugos were still deciding what changes they wanted to make...

[Phosphorus32]

YUGO...YUFO...UFO   

[Loose}{Cannon]

I dunno...  But the two high serial LBs do NOT have the 'experimental' FSB and they are both mega mixmasters.  To me, they prove the serialization stayed consecutive no matter how late they were made.

You may also notice there is a 90,000 number difference just in that one crate... More evidence of the odds I talked about.  I feel that if there are LBs over #100 with the special rsb, the chances of one being found within the tens of thousands of rifles imported would be very high.

Crates having 1-3 connectivity serialed guns among a bunch of 100% consecutive crates isn't a surprise. Even Raspootyns 12 had #77 and 78.

[Loose}{Cannon]

The REAR of the early LBs receivers have the serial #....   Does this sound like a late production feature to anyone?

[Dannyboy53]

Found them..

LOL..way to go Bush, you solved the mystery!

[Greasemonkey]

The REAR of the early LBs receivers have the serial #....   Does this sound like a late production feature to anyone?

Define a late production... m59..  "B" series 15xxx, or "C" series 49xxx.  It's just a redundant place to put two digits.  Looking at a LB, "B" and a "C", there is virtually no difference in pieces and parts short of the longer barrel, front sight and knurling on the bayonet release. Even the receiver P/N is the same, quality of machine work looks the same, purplish blueing the same.


But, explain this one, Mr Serial on the rear of the receiver...

I ripped all three M59s apart a bit ago.. something new, I over looked, popped in the sunlight from the "B" series, along with the 116 serial etched on the LB mag.

Another blued over etched serial, this one is 979..   So, we have hints of rifles #116 and a #979, but hey, wait, those rifles "don't exist". 





They just didn't etch/electro-pencil numbers on parts and pieces for their health, so why else is they there, it ain't no part/assembly number, that stamp looks like yours...

so now we have two never before seen serial numbers in the 3 digit range on two separate rifles. 

All one has to do is look.