Mystery Grenade launcher

[Loose}{Cannon]

Decided to get my hands on one of these critters myself..... after all, you cannot have an opinion unless you have one... right?   

First impressions:

#1:   Its rinky-dinky... The screws holding the ladder are half the diameter of the hole causing the ladder itself to wiggle around as it has a very poor and crappy fitment. I have observed this to be the case with the screw/hole sizes on all the other examples I have seen as well.  It really is like someone took the ladder off of a Belgian GL and hastily attached it to the spigot with screws.  Even the slot in the screws are not centered....... crap.

#2:  The shank that slides over the FSB at the clamping location is entirely too big. The muzzle may fit in the slot further up in there and the slot may clear the post width, but thats about it. This drastic difference in OD/ID creates an unacceptable gap and drastic angle of the GL when clamped down and the FSB is forced to one side of the shank and not even close to alligned with the bore. The angle is so severe that if someone handed me a grenade and said "here, fire a bullet through this elbow, into a grenade, and launch it'... Ill tell them to go  suck on a pickle. Being an ex-machinist, I can tell you with certainty that if this GL shank was indeed made to fit the OD of an SKS FSB, this enormous gap would not exist. 

This misalignment and drastic fitment gap was seen in saigons post on his GL... here are his pictures.






Here are some pictures of mine...  Please note, I have over 25 sks rifles and this fitment issue and misalignment is present on ALL of them.








Here is a shot of the muzzle end....  Of course, it has a crown as a bullet is seemingly supposed to pass freely through the device. I measured the bore size with calipers and it measures .40 leaving the .310 bullet with .090 total difference and by dividing this in half, .045 would be the clearance between the bullet and GL bore.  Thats not much.... there is no possible way the bullet would not destroy the inside of this GL. On a side note, looking through the bore of the GL I see zero signs of a bullet ever touching the inside wall of the bore.




Lets take a closer look at this OD/ID gap at the shank...

The Shank ID of the GL is .720




And the Romanian FSB OD is .630



Thats a difference of almost a tenth of an inch!!!!    This is the source of the angled/kinked/misalignment between the GL and rifles bore.


For craps and giggles, here is a few pics of the large holes and small diameter screws making for a rinky-dinky fitting ladder.






What does this thing go to???      I dunno, but while the fitment on an sks does work, its far from being "like a glove".

Side note:  This GL would not fit on a Yugo M59 due to the post width being just a C-hair to wide by a few thousandths. Upon checking it on the Yugo M70 milled underfolder, the results were exactly the same. Knowing Yugo rifles to be somewhat beefier compare to others in this regard, I wouldn't be surprised if it slides right on a standard AKM (which I dont have).  I also strongly believe this GL could have easily been crudely made in the Balkans for the thousands of Chinese Type 63 rifles sent to the region. 

My GL has the same markings as others.... some are at the rear of the shank like saigons, and some are on the side of the ladder like mine. From what I have seen, thay are all marked with a broad arrow and the #334. please note, this is NOT and incomplete triangle as the ends of the arrow point do not fade away in a fashion expected to see with an angle stuck stamp.  The point lines end very abruptly and the rear of the shank opposite of the point is deeply struck and as well indicating we are not missing the bottom half of a triangle on ALL these examples.




My conclusion is this...

While this crude spigot may fit an sks, its very sloppy. There is a VERY high probability it could very well fit another weapon just as well or better.

[Dannyboy53]

Looks like this GL was made in a "shop" under a tree, an assembly of mixed parts!

[Loose}{Cannon]

Ill also note..  The half moon shaped deal on the inside that presses against the FSB also has a much larger diameter that does not match the OD of the FSB.

As seen in this pic..

[Greasemonkey]

So if one had a rod, that exactly matched the bore diameter, in theory you could slide it into the bore and see where or if a bullet would hit the launcher.

It's a clear case of just because it fits it, it may not be right for the application..

Alot of things in this world fit something else, but it may not work, for example.
Your typical B16A Honda 4 banger engine has a bore diameter of 81mm, well by golly, so does a an VW/Audi 2.5 R5 TDI diesel. So while in theory, I can fit the Honda piston in the VW diesel engine, I mean, come on now, both engine bores are 81mm in diameter, right, but, will it work, NOPE.


Oh, and "IF" a bullet hits the launcher, that kinda rules out a bullet trap grenade.

SO, this means a grenade launching blank must be used, but, where does a majority of the high pressure gas from the said blank go when there is a pound plus grenade shoved on the muzzle? 

Riddle me this Batman, what does a Yugoslavian M59/66 have that a Romanian M56 SKS don't...  What does a Type 63/68 have, that Romanian SKS's don't?

[Loose}{Cannon]

A shutoff?   

[Greasemonkey]

Ringy Dingy, you win the prize,

Jenny tell this fine fellow what he won

[Justin Hell]

Glad the mystery is 'solved'....but what gets me is the other folk claiming it fit like a glove on several of their SKS's....could it be the same design was used for different types of rifles and this one just doesn't happen to be for an SKS?

They are ugly as sin regardless....and I dunno if I would want to have anything to do with one....if I were to find a need to launch grenades, I have the Cherry's I would be willing to defile in that situation. Let's just hope for the safety of us all, it never comes to that.

[Loose}{Cannon]

No.. They all have this large shank ID.

Remember saigons?

[Greasemonkey]

Be right back, gotta gather me thoughts

[Loose}{Cannon]

[Dannyboy53]

Good find Greasemonkey

[Loose}{Cannon]

Guess I payed just under retail for mine.   

Wonder what these guys know that we dont.... seeing that they likey imported them from somewhere.

[Carl in CT]

Guess I payed just under retail for mine.   

Wonder what these guys know that we dont.... seeing that they likey imported them from somewhere.

They know that if they claim it fits something common some idiot, I mean intelligent guy, will buy it so they can make a buck.            

LC, you of course bought yours for our benefit to test the theories, so you fall into the intelligent guy category as opposed to idiot, at least this time. 

[Loose}{Cannon]

True...  no tellin where they got their info.  Hopefully GM gets the link back up soon.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Wonder what these guys know that we dont.... seeing that they likey imported them from somewhere.

They know a good bit apparently.   

Some of you may recall that IMA was the original retailer for these GLs that have been floating around.  The other day GM had posted a link to their site showing they still have some and are currently running a new sales page for them titled (Original Belgian FN-49 SAFN Grenade Launcher - Compatible with SKS) as seen here.  Original Belgian FN-49 SAFN Grenade Launcher - Compatible with SKS ima-usa.com

It would seem that any relevance to the sks is summed up with one sentence... "Also compatible with some SKS variations including 1958 Romanian issue"

Suspicious of such little mentioning of the sks and the fact they seem to otherwise know exactly what this spigot was made for (fn 49)... we decided to dig deeper.

The following question was sent to IMA by an SKSFILES admin:

I'm interested to know more information on these launchers. Are they true Belgium made for the SAFN or were they modified to fit the SKS by Belgium or someone else? Any clue to when they were made? Where were they imported from, any model number. Any information you could provide would be greatly appreciated, and would assist me in my decision to purchase one.

And their reply was as follows:

The history of these grenade launchers is not entirely clear. They were made in Belgium, and then probably saw service in was then the Belgian Congo. They were then sent back to Belgium, where we purchased them from SIDEM in Brussels.  They are definitely made for the SAFN 49, but by chance they also happen to fit on some varieties of SKS. We do not know whether they will function properly on the SKS however.

It would seem they know exactly what these spigots were made for and by whom.  The sks tale sounds more like an sks collector or two has already contacted them with "it fits an sks" inquiries.

For me this is (case closed) as they were bought from Belgium whom told them they were Belgian made, and what rifle they are for.  In typical sksfiles fashion, to go one step even further, we are going to go straight to the Belgian source and see what that turns up.

Its a Belgian FN 49 grenade spigot, and sks collectors found out it loosely fits an sks..... birth of a myth. I also have a strong suspicion that they were listed as FN 49 the first time they sold them.   

[Greasemonkey]

Ok, some will ask, yea, I inquired. I own this one

So, what we have is:
Belgium, they joinded NATO in 1948, the SAFN or FN-49 at this time was in final stages of development, released in 1949. It was contract made for many nations, in the non-communist world. Now, Belgium never made or even used an SKS being in the NATO alliance. The U.S. military even tested a FN-49. Production of the FN pretty much ended in 1956, predating the Romanian SKS, as well as China, Yugoslavia and Albanina.

Why would a NATO aligned nation even consider making a launcher for a combloc nation, like Romania? It's a massive conflict of interest. Why would Belgium sell them or modify them for a combloc nation?Again, yes, it fits, now one can order a night sight for a French Mas 49/56, it will fit over the grenade launcher of a Yugoslavian M59/66, it fits like a glove, I tried, and it would be fully fuctional. But, is it right? No sir.

With the recent importer info provided above, the questionable fitment shown, and the design of the SKS gas system, it really makes one wonder, this is the compatability part. Basically, it's for looks and wonderous stories only. I know some will swear it's Romanian till the day they perish, but reality is, what it is. The importer knows where it was exported from, who they purchased them from and where they were made at. What, if any advantage is there lying about where it came from or who made it, there is no gain. I guess I could have always asked for the shipping manifest copy, invoice and port inspection proving and supporting what they claim.

[Worm]

 

[Loose}{Cannon]

Alright.... the retailer got his info from Belgium SIDEM.  Who can find more info on these guys?

Also.. in the event it does not fit an FN49, Im convinced it will fit some variation of FN military rifle. Anyone know of any obscure variatiins or pre fn49 rifles to look at?

[Loose}{Cannon]

I got it.....

Nato country lend-lease rifle Mossberg 42mb grenade target practice using Aguila Super Colibri ammo.   Fits like a glove.

[Greasemonkey]

Alot of things in this world fit something else, but it may not work, for example.
Your typical B16A Honda 4 banger engine has a bore diameter of 81mm, well by golly, so does a an VW/Audi 2.5 R5 TDI diesel. So while in theory, I can fit the Honda piston in the VW diesel engine, I mean, come on now, both engine bores are 81mm in diameter, right, but, will it work, NOPE.

Honda meets VW/Audi     Bet that awesome 22lr could chuck a grenade halfway across Texas.