SKS-FILES FORUM

SKS Carbines => Unaltered SKS Rifles => Russian SKS => Topic started by: Dannyboy53 on November 10, 2015, 09:55:30 PM

Title: T inside a triangle
Post by: Dannyboy53 on November 10, 2015, 09:55:30 PM
Can you Russian Gurus tell me what this T inside a triangle means? I saw this one on the East German SKS in the October GB carbines posted by running-man. Mine has the same stamp in the same place as this one.

(http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh618/smithdblueDannyboy53/Russian%20triangle%20T_zpsklokwdyh.jpg)
Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on November 10, 2015, 10:09:27 PM
The seller is a scammer and nobody knows what exactly that Russian inspection stamp means.

That rifle had NOTHING to do with East Germany.
Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: Worm on November 10, 2015, 10:16:07 PM
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on November 10, 2015, 10:09:27 PM
The seller is a scammer and nobody knows what exactly that Russian inspection stamp means.

That rifle had NOTHING to do with East Germany.

^
Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: Dannyboy53 on November 10, 2015, 10:20:51 PM
Well I don't give a fart in a windstorm about what flavor it is or isn't. I was just curious about that "T". I figured it might be an inspector's stamp but I wanted to hear it from those that know much more than I.
Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on November 10, 2015, 10:22:25 PM
 thumb1
Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: Phosphorus32 on November 10, 2015, 11:09:11 PM
Hey Danny, can you get a well focused pic of the triangle T (or whatever that is) on your SKS?   :)

With the white paint/grease pencil or whatever filler that the owner of that rifle glopped in there it's hard to pick up the subtleties  nea1

It may just be one of those marks with an unknown meaning  ???
Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: Greasemonkey on November 10, 2015, 11:23:49 PM
Wonder if it ain't a old school Tulsky stamp, or Tula Arms Plant or Tulsky Oruzheiny Zavod

The recent Mosin imports have a triangle T, just now with a circle.
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/C13mechanic/Mosins/Tulsky_right_side_receiver_2_zpsz1lrsfcq.jpg) (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/C13mechanic/media/Mosins/Tulsky_right_side_receiver_2_zpsz1lrsfcq.jpg.html)


Just an idea..
Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on November 10, 2015, 11:29:37 PM
Commercial arm of tula...  'Toz'
Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: Greasemonkey on November 10, 2015, 11:34:34 PM
Maybe not commercial back in the day. Back in the day, I'm sure it was military, the commercial side came later, which maybe when the triangle changed.
Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on November 10, 2015, 11:36:48 PM
Could be....  But that /\ and size is in-line with the other 300 some-odd random /\ with letters and numbers found on the Russo sks. 
Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on November 10, 2015, 11:38:56 PM
I dunno....    I have a HEAVY Olympic 22 bench gun with a full blown Tula star with arrow.   
Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: Greasemonkey on November 11, 2015, 12:02:14 AM
Tula Arms Plant made TOZ commercial weapons as well as military weapons, Mosins, SKSs, Toks etc.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tula_Arms_Plant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tula_Arms_Plant)

http://www.tulatoz.ru/en/o-predpriyatii/history.php (http://www.tulatoz.ru/en/o-predpriyatii/history.php)

Quote
Tulsky oruzheiny zavod during World War II

During WWII working under the motto “Everything is for the front, everything is for the victory” the Tula gunsmiths produced  SVT-38/40 sniping rifles, ShVAK aircraft cannons, Nagant revolvers and TT pistols. During WWII working under the motto “Everything is for the front, everything is for the victory” the Tula gunsmiths produced  SVT-38/40 sniping rifles, ShVAK aircraft cannons, Nagant revolvers and TT pistols.

Tulsky oruzheiny zavod in the post-war period

The post-war time was the time of fruitful and hard work in the creation of various sporting and hunting fire-arms). Such models as double-barrel hammerless shotgun T0Z-25, the "BM" double-barrel hammer gun and small-caliber rifles TOZ-8M, TOZ-12, TOZ-16, TOZ-17,            TOZ-18 were designed in these years.
At the same time the plant output 7,62 mm Simonov's carbines SCS.
In 1965 the plant  produced a famous over-and-under double-barrel shotgun TOZ-34 designed by N. I. Korovyakov and V. P. Ochnev. In 1961—1982 the Tula Arms Plant received an  production order of the worldwide known Kalashnikov assault rifle ( it was put into production 6 modifications of the rifle), anti-tank guided missile as the part of the "Malyutka", "Fagot", "Konkurs" complexes; underbarrel grenade launcher "Kostyor".

HUH, they made Simonov's carbines, and TOZs...imagine that... :)
Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: Loose}{Cannon on November 11, 2015, 12:27:54 AM
Did I say something different?

All I'm saying is the Toz stamp went on the sporting guns. 
Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: Dannyboy53 on November 11, 2015, 07:00:09 AM
Quote from: Phosphorus32 on November 10, 2015, 11:09:11 PM
Hey Danny, can you get a well focused pic of the triangle T (or whatever that is) on your SKS?   :)

With the white paint/grease pencil or whatever filler that the owner of that rifle glopped in there it's hard to pick up the subtleties  nea1

It may just be one of those marks with an unknown meaning  ???

Yes sir I'll get it done this evening. My thanks to all for answering!
Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: jjjxlr8 on November 12, 2015, 04:16:12 PM
As others have indicated, it's a hammer, not a "T".
Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: running-man on November 12, 2015, 05:20:31 PM
Quote from: jjjxlr8 on November 12, 2015, 04:16:12 PM
As others have indicated, it's a hammer, not a "T".

Interesting!  7.62x54.net has this image of a Tula hammer (albeit not in a triangle):
(http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/TulaHammerRec.jpg)

Lotema (http://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20299&start=0) on russian-mosin-nagant-forum.com has this on a MN tang:
(http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee381/sszudzik/Firearms/Mosin/1916%20Tula%20-%20Peter%20The%20Great/_MG_9371.jpg)

Another one from 7.62x54R.net, this time within a Tula star:
(http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/N0042_small.jpg)

It'll be interesting what Danny comes up with off his SKS.
Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: Greasemonkey2.0 on November 12, 2015, 05:53:11 PM
Quote from: jjjxlr8 on November 12, 2015, 04:16:12 PM
As others have indicated, it's a hammer, not a "T".

What others, who? just curious. :)
Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: Dannyboy53 on November 12, 2015, 07:56:26 PM
Here is the T on my carbine, it isn't the "Tula hammer" as far as I can tell.

(http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh618/smithdblueDannyboy53/Russian%20SKS%2045/Triangle%20T_zpstam1xfad.jpg)

Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: Bunker on November 13, 2015, 03:33:38 AM
Quote from: running-man on November 12, 2015, 05:20:31 PM

Another one from 7.62x54R.net, this time within a Tula star:
(http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/N0042_small.jpg)

It'll be interesting what Danny comes up with off his SKS.

Plant 536 brand.
Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: jjjxlr8 on November 14, 2015, 02:01:15 PM
Quote from: Greasemonkey2.0 on November 12, 2015, 05:53:11 PM
Quote from: jjjxlr8 on November 12, 2015, 04:16:12 PM
As others have indicated, it's a hammer, not a "T".

What others, who? just curious. :)

Sorry...I was referring to Greasemonkey's links.  I guess it's not clear whether it's a T or a hammer, but I think it represents Tula either way.

Here's another example - sometimes the hammer looks like a T and I suppose in the original post, the T may be looking like the Tula hammer!

(http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/N0045.jpg)
Title: Re: T inside a triangle
Post by: Bunker on November 14, 2015, 11:29:17 PM
I would agree with Dannyboy53…I’d say the marking in question is an inspector stamp, possibly a post-war Tula Arsenal inspector’s stamp.  I know I’ve seen it before but can’t recall where.  As an example, Tula AKs used the same symbol with various numbers and letters within, possibly a ‘T’ as well but can't recall.  Other countries also used a ‘T’ marking, alone and within symbols but IMO this one has the telltale signs of an inspector stamp. 

As for the hammers…I believe all of the early Tula so called ‘T’ markings are hammers.  All kinds of terms have been used to describe the different hammer variations (e.g., molot, scepter, ‘T’, etc) or молоток in Russian, but IMO they are all some form of a working hammer and not a letter ‘T’. 
 
The very early Tula hammer markings should not be confused with the triangle marking in question. The Tula hammer marking was used on many early Tula weapons with several hammer variations, whether alone or within a circle or within another symbol.  The two hammer examples RM posted are clearly early Tula hammers and here are a few more from a Tula Arsenal M91 for additional reference.  There are several hammer markings on this rifle, some are single hammer marks and some are enclosed in a circle.

(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a632/Bunker9939/Russian%20Model%20of%201891/M91_6_zpshgwsytjg.jpg) (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/Bunker9939/media/Russian%20Model%20of%201891/M91_6_zpshgwsytjg.jpg.html)

(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a632/Bunker9939/Russian%20Model%20of%201891/M91_5_zpsknuv82ag.jpg) (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/Bunker9939/media/Russian%20Model%20of%201891/M91_5_zpsknuv82ag.jpg.html)

(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a632/Bunker9939/Russian%20Model%20of%201891/M91_3_zpsqerkkfdu.jpg) (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/Bunker9939/media/Russian%20Model%20of%201891/M91_3_zpsqerkkfdu.jpg.html)

(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a632/Bunker9939/Russian%20Model%20of%201891/M91_1_zpsfsejaxro.jpg) (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/Bunker9939/media/Russian%20Model%20of%201891/M91_1_zpsfsejaxro.jpg.html)

I think looking at Plant 536 examples is also digressing a little from the original question.  As an example, the 1945 brand, like the one jjjxlr8 posted, will generally have damage to the top of the left side point of the star. The hammerhead is long with a right-side tapered point and the haft is straight.  The brand had different variations during its evolution.

Specific to Plant 536…it was established in 1942 and the brand had variations of the hammer, not to mention other variations (fonts, stamping methods, etc), which is a completely different topic.  For reference here are several examples of the brand that highlight the evolution and variations.  Again, not really related to the marking in question.

(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a632/Bunker9939/Russian%20Arsenals/536/1A_zpsmji5crgq.jpg) (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/Bunker9939/media/Russian%20Arsenals/536/1A_zpsmji5crgq.jpg.html)
(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a632/Bunker9939/Russian%20Arsenals/536/1B_zpszgk1urn0.jpg) (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/Bunker9939/media/Russian%20Arsenals/536/1B_zpszgk1urn0.jpg.html)
(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a632/Bunker9939/Russian%20Arsenals/536/1C_zps3b1x7upw.jpg) (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/Bunker9939/media/Russian%20Arsenals/536/1C_zps3b1x7upw.jpg.html)