Ran into a problem at Century Arms, be prepared to prove laws

[Witchywoman]

So I been buying C&R since about 2005. In the last few years I really started buying a LOT again like I did in the early days, the southern Ohio Gun days, what I call the pentacle of collecting before the decline of this hobby and flood of the youtube inspired collectors which has really not helped this hobby.

Anyway I bought a P-64 from Century last week after pointing out to them that they are C&R, they moved them to the C&R section. I got a notice the order was on hold. Took 3 days to connect with someone. They told me their compliance dept cannot prove that C&R is legal anymore in WA state do to the dastardly Bob Fergusons crooked unconstitutional new illegal law. Thank goodness there is an exemption in this law when you scroll down to section (i) "(i) A sale or transfer when the purchaser or transferee is a licensed collector and the firearm being sold or transferred is a curio or relic; or"

https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.113

So I sent this to century. I dunno why these people cannot even check themselves and see this. They claimed they had trouble finding an exemption and wanted me to send them proof. I am actually shocked this state put that exemption in. Places like CA and OR have been screwed out of their C&R because there is no such exemption for them and their law is vague on what a dealer IS and they don't know a collector is an FFL toO.

So I forwarded all of this to every C&R distributor I know except (Centerfire because their liberal lawyers ignore this) just so I do not run into roadblocks again. Its frustrating and does nothing but cause a headache. The heck of the thing is I bought from Century two weeks before and there was no such problem. The lady said they do random law checks. She said the handgun should clear compliance by end of day, I sure hope so. A week delay for this without processing already.

I hope that by me sending this proof to anyone living here, also prevents their order getting delayed in the future. I never have any issues with AIM and a few other places. I wish Centerfire Systems would lift their ban but they been informed of the exemption and do not care so they can go to hell. I think it sucks that some companies will hold a grudge like that which punishes the buyer and not the state. They should not blanket ban a state because of some grudge or ignorance. so far they are the only ones I have encountered that make up their own rules.

[Ret-Sarge]

Sad when you have to do the legwork for a Licensed dealer, just to prove you are right.

Had to argue with my local FFL, about the 3 day wait.

Florida says 3 days from the date of purchase. So when I buy online the clock starts when they charge my credit card. So by the time it arrives at the local FFL, I've surpassed the 3 day requirement. He said no originally, then discussed it with other local FFLs and who sided with my interpretation. Could have gone to another FFL, but he's the cheapest around here, and less than a mile from the house.

[echo1]

As much as it sucks to deal with ignorant FFLs, they can and do make store policy. Kali example: "delayed delivery" for the buyer, in itself is one issue for the LGS legal team. Kali regs say if after a delay of 30 days to release if not denied, some shops (mostly big box shops, Bass Pro, Sportsman Guide, Turners...) return the item to inventory or seller upon a delay, or if the issue that caused the delay is "undetermined". Nowhere do the regs say an LGS has to do that. The reg says the LGS may release at their own discrimination. The LGS corporate lawyers interpret this to mean they assume liability. Kali can screw up the simplest task, lawyers make it worse. PAX

[running-man]

It does suck when you try to argue your case to a FFL and they simply don't want to put the effort into understanding and being able to comply with the regulation while still being able to provide you a service.  They lose the revenue of that sale and often make an antagonist of their past customers.  Do that to enough people and they will go under which is certainly not great for the industry as it limits your options.  I will say that I can see certain points of view with respect to not crossing *any* possible grey lines with new onerous laws being implemented in bright blue states.  When the regs change yearly and something that was once commonplace is now punishable with heavy fines or even jail time for the company officers, the company needs to decide whether that group of sales is worth their time to understand the regs and try and thread the needle. It sucks, but it's reality. 

[Witchywoman]

Today I got an email saying the P64 was released for processing and shipping to me. what sucks is all this back and fourth with them delayed my order and now its just "Entered Into The system" You would think they could of just processed and shipped it as this cost me more than a week when its past their 4 day processing statement. I swear, Century used to be a lot better. I remember looking in my unlce's very old Outdoor life magazines from the 60s and 70's (They made me salivate and dream of what I wanted to eventually own as an adult), dozens of Mauser types in excellent shape, Persian carbines, K98s, SVT40's by the dozen. You name it they had it and dealing with them in the early 2000's for me was no hassle. Someone must of died there, everything is different now. The people who answer are like robots and monotone. The stock of C&R they have now is maybe 20 rifles (mostly swiss) and 4 pistol types. Many are in poor condition. I think nowadays they give the FFL the good stuff and leave the collector with whats left. I often have to email them and instruct them that a gun they have in their FFL section is C&R, and in most cases it does get moved over to where we can buy it after I educate them but I never had to do that before. I am the one that got their batch of P64's moved over to the Curio section for sale by giving them a lesson on them. Recently I tried to tell them that the Star 9mm BM's with a stamped prefix of Q through like T were made  1972-75 but they are researching that (Alpha-Numeric code = year of production 1972 = Q1 1973 = R1 1974 = S1 1975 = T1 ). Most I have seen from them have a Q code. Ugggggg

I also have noticed a new change with some distributors where they have made bore condition unimportant for the C&R collector. Some have a clause in a listing, to the effect of something like (bore condition is not relevant for collector purposes) Well hell yes it is important. I would love to know who created this clause, its like some clause to save their butt if you get a bad barrel and/or another way to label the 03 FFL holder as 2nd class. Its not right. NRA condition grades are very important to most collectors and the bore is at the top of the list, even for a shooter grade.

[Direct Connection]

As much as it sucks to deal with ignorant FFLs, they can and do make store policy. Kali example: "delayed delivery" for the buyer, in itself is one issue for the LGS legal team. Kali regs say if after a delay of 30 days to release if not denied, some shops (mostly big box shops, Bass Pro, Sportsman Guide, Turners...) return the item to inventory or seller upon a delay, or if the issue that caused the delay is "undetermined". Nowhere do the regs say an LGS has to do that. The reg says the LGS may release at their own discrimination. The LGS corporate lawyers interpret this to mean they assume liability. Kali can screw up the simplest task, lawyers make it worse. PAX

Two of the 3 recent shotguns ive bought from bass pro have been delayed but i still got the guns in the end. Just about a month and a half wait. All that said. The OP is going to love that p64. I put the wolf spring in my triggers to smooth it out a little . Big Difference.

[echo1]

Two of the 3 recent shotguns ive bought from bass pro have been delayed but i still got the guns in the end. Just about a month and a half wait. All that said. The OP is going to love that p64. I put the wolf spring in my triggers to smooth it out a little . Big Difference.

Eight consecutive delays with undetermined since 2019. PAX

[Witchywoman]

As much as it sucks to deal with ignorant FFLs, they can and do make store policy. Kali example: "delayed delivery" for the buyer, in itself is one issue for the LGS legal team. Kali regs say if after a delay of 30 days to release if not denied, some shops (mostly big box shops, Bass Pro, Sportsman Guide, Turners...) return the item to inventory or seller upon a delay, or if the issue that caused the delay is "undetermined". Nowhere do the regs say an LGS has to do that. The reg says the LGS may release at their own discrimination. The LGS corporate lawyers interpret this to mean they assume liability. Kali can screw up the simplest task, lawyers make it worse. PAX

Two of the 3 recent shotguns ive bought from bass pro have been delayed but i still got the guns in the end. Just about a month and a half wait. All that said. The OP is going to love that p64. I put the wolf spring in my triggers to smooth it out a little . Big Difference.

Thanks!! I have a cold war pistol habit and the more eastern bloc the better and most are cheaper than others as well. I been wanting to add the P64 for like forever. I added a wolf spring set to my CZ82 which solved its feeding issue when chambering. I think its just a good idea to replace springs in general with milsurps.

[GuitarmanNick]

Glad I grabbed a couple of P-64s in excellent condition years ago. Wolff springs make the guns a joy to shoot but don't go too heavy on the recoil spring or it will be a bugger to rack.

Very accurate little guns if you can see the sights.

Never had any issues with Century though I live in the commie state of Marylandistan. Out legislature makes a sport out of turning law-abiding citizens into felons overnight. Our AG loves to sue gun makers and interstate dealers blaming them for any crime involving one of their products.

When states began suing FFLs out of business for lawful sales, their only defense is not to sell to buyers in those states. What is legal today, could be illegal next time the state assembly meets.

Having owned my own business, I can see things from their perspective. I don't like it, but it is certainly reasonable for them to protect themselves from future liability.

[Witchywoman]

Glad I grabbed a couple of P-64s in excellent condition years ago. Wolff springs make the guns a joy to shoot but don't go too heavy on the recoil spring or it will be a bugger to rack.

Very accurate little guns if you can see the sights.

Never had any issues with Century though I live in the commie state of Marylandistan. Out legislature makes a sport out of turning law-abiding citizens into felons overnight. Our AG loves to sue gun makers and interstate dealers blaming them for any crime involving one of their products.

When states began suing FFLs out of business for lawful sales, their only defense is not to sell to buyers in those states. What is legal today, could be illegal next time the state assembly meets.

Having owned my own business, I can see things from their perspective. I don't like it, but it is certainly reasonable for them to protect themselves from future liability.

Well you are right. I should lighten up on them because at least they are willing to debate and make it right when I present facts. They also do not have to actually take the time to let me point out that a gun they have the price hidden for FFL's is actually C&R and move it over to the section where we can purchase it. On four occasions, I emailed them that it did fall under the 50 year rule and/or was on the list already and they did just that.

[Phosphorus32]

As a fellow Washingtonian, I feel your pain on the punish the residents of the state with restrictive gun laws. I just find it a bit inconsistent that most of these firearms industry companies are vocally pro-2A but will immediately surrender all of the ground, and more, to whatever anti-2A statute a state comes up with. I have no doubt it's an abundance of caution (their lawyers are paid to be risk averse).

I have kind of a thing for the P-64s too. My first C&R pistol was a P-64 with the plum finish.

Bore condition isn't number 1 on my list of criteria when it comes to collectibles, but I always pay attention to it if the info is available, and it's definitely a bonus when the bore is in great shape, so for some company to state it's irrelevant is definitely a CYA move, IMO.

[Witchywoman]

As a fellow Washingtonian,

What those assholes, Inslee and Ferguson, have done to our rights in this state in less than 10 years (including guns and parenting) is beyond criminal. Why we honor any illegal law that is in direct violation of our rights is illogical.

Even when we have a majority, little is done to ever reverse this bull**** and we donate all this money to gun groups and that seldom makes a difference either. We have zero in common with Seattle/Olympia on this side of the Cascades. Honestly that side can go to hell. If I had not bought a home here I would be running to Idaho but I am kind of stuck unless I want to go through buying again,and the 1000's of dollars to sell/close, and move all over again. Its just not realistic. The rage burns when I think about the leftist situation in this state.

[echo1]

As a fellow Washingtonian,

What those assholes, Inslee and Ferguson, have done to our rights in this state in less than 10 years (including guns and parenting) is beyond criminal. Why we honor any illegal law that is in direct violation of our rights is illogical.

Even when we have a majority, little is done to ever reverse this bull**** and we donate all this money to gun groups and that seldom makes a difference either. We have zero in common with Seattle/Olympia on this side of the Cascades. Honestly that side can go to hell. If I had not bought a home here I would be running to Idaho but I am kind of stuck unless I want to go through buying again,and the 1000's of dollars to sell/close, and move all over again. Its just not realistic. The rage burns when I think about the leftist situation in this state.

It's incredible how fast many states, like Washington, went south worse than Kali. For me too it's just too late in the game or I be in Idaho too. Even Virginia has turned crazy. PAX

[Greasemonkey]

Even Virginia has turned crazy. PAX

Yeah..... yeah it has. crazy is a light PC description, stupid is more applicable. As a life long resident the whole mess Spamburgler and her chronies have unleashed is totally off the hook, a 180 flip for the worst. In talking to collectors and enthusiast in various roles, they, the legislation are wanting to plan the tightest gun control in the country, taking and using little pieces from all the left coast states, New York ect, plus whatever they can dream up.

Let this be a warning to those who live in states that still have rights, all it takes is a flip of the switch to totally destroy everything you know. They may claim a moderate stance while polling, then pull the Jeckel and Hyde which is what happened to us. We're going to try to fight it, but I'm not gonna hold my breath at this point.

Thankfully for me... the West By God Virginia border is only 27 miles away.

[Witchywoman]

Even Virginia has turned crazy. PAX

Yeah..... yeah it has. crazy is a light PC description, stupid is more applicable. As a life long resident the whole mess Spamburgler and her chronies have unleashed is totally off the hook, a 180 flip for the worst. In talking to collectors and enthusiast in various roles, they, the legislation are wanting to plan the tightest gun control in the country, taking and using little pieces from all the left coast states, New York ect, plus whatever they can dream up.

Let this be a warning to those who live in states that still have rights, all it takes is a flip of the switch to totally destroy everything you know. They may claim a moderate stance while polling, then pull the Jeckel and Hyde which is what happened to us. We're going to try to fight it, but I'm not gonna hold my breath at this point.

Thankfully for me... the West By God Virginia border is only 27 miles away.

Whats ironic is people who say, "well I am safe,poor you". Blah Blah, yeah keep bragging, look how Colorado used to be red, Now the enemy has a new tactic. Just flood red states with illegals or liberals and/or ignore the Constitution all together, and then citizens scurry to comply rather than push back. This is already happening in states like AZ and TX after Newsomes disasters, whats pathetic is democrats who claim they have had enough, then they flee and vote for the same **** in a new state, total ignorance. In WA, many CA people moved here and really offset the voting even worse in the west of the state. Its all an evil agenda. Whats going on is a flat out act of war on American Citizens and rights. People bragging about safety from anti-gun agendas will get hit too and sooner than later. We the people need to stop honoring legislation that is a direct violation of rights and lawyers and pro-gun politicians need to stop slacking and trying to ignore the problem. The real insurrection is what the left is doing to this country and they do it right in plain sight with no repercussions!!!. They say no one is above the law? Wanna bet? Better fix that. What has gone on in the last 10 years is the worst disaster this country has ever seen. Denial of science, violent marxist backed riots going unchecked, A concocted phony "Race war" with the sole focus on dividing us all further, an outright attack on our rights, the pandemic scam and people losing jobs for refusing a phony vaccine,arrested  for refusing to wear a dumb mask that did nothing. On and on. I am not even religious but this crap is biblical.

BTW I never did get those poison shots. No one in my family did. My doctor was pissed that I refused and I fired her ass. I too am not far from the border of Idaho either. Rant mode off.