1949 Tula? (Pic Heavy)

[Chevy Boy]

Hey all. I've got what (I think) is a 1949 Tula. The dust cover does have that year stamped on it, but I've heard tell that these got swapped around sometimes.

I've also been told real 1949 Tulas are unusual and possibly worth a great deal.

I bought this one originally as a brush gun because I missed my old Chinese SKS. She shoots fine, one of the smoother actions I've encountered on an SKS. Can anybody tell me more about what I have here?

[fisherl3]

Hi.  The quick tip off for it being a 1949 or early SKS is the fact that  you have a 90 degree gas block.  The 1949 was the only Russian to have the spike bayonet.
There are other identifying items like the loop take down lever, a non riveted mag well, etc.  However refurbs have a mismatch of any of this parts.  From the pictures that I see it looks good.

[Justin Hell]

Not to sound weird, but could you post a pic of her undercarriage?
There is a fairly little known facet to the early Russian scenario that would be interesting to see....the underside of your magazine in particular.

More detailed photos of the entire thing would be tits, it's not very often these show up...especially in the US, which I assume based entirely on your profile pic.
There is a chance it may even be a 48 or possibly earlier....they exist....really.  The heavy refurb nature of yours, (which is totally expected) has also led to speculation that some earlier trials guns also got mixed in at refurbishment with the later partial production 49s and into the 50s as they share similar non compatible features found on the vast majority of, well almost any SKS made later...by any country. The trials guns also had spikes, so it is entirely possible. The serial prefix letters might lend to either 'known' 49s in the serial database, or might be something totally new to the folks studying these.

Most folk around here wouldn't mind a few dozen pics of this beauty.

[Phosphorus32]

  Yes, as many good focused pictures in daylight of serial numbers, receiver cover markings top and rear, bayonet, gas block receiver cover latch and magazine would be great for starters.

Edit: If you're sensitive about sharing numbers (I'm not, but I respect other's perspectives), at least pictures with one or two numbers blocked out so that we can compare the fonts of the letters and numbers on the back of the receiver cover and left receiver rail, especially, would be very helpful.

[Chevy Boy]

Not to sound weird, but could you post a pic of her undercarriage?
There is a fairly little known facet to the early Russian scenario that would be interesting to see....the underside of your magazine in particular.

More detailed photos of the entire thing would be tits, it's not very often these show up...especially in the US, which I assume based entirely on your profile pic.
There is a chance it may even be a 48 or possibly earlier....they exist....really.  The heavy refurb nature of yours, (which is totally expected) has also led to speculation that some earlier trials guns also got mixed in at refurbishment with the later partial production 49s and into the 50s as they share similar non compatible features found on the vast majority of, well almost any SKS made later...by any country. The trials guns also had spikes, so it is entirely possible. The serial prefix letters might lend to either 'known' 49s in the serial database, or might be something totally new to the folks studying these.

Most folk around here wouldn't mind a few dozen pics of this beauty.

Sure.

I don't know much about old comblock stuff, or the significance of any of the individual parts on the SKS, so any kind of detail you can get from the pictures would be much appreciated.

[Chevy Boy]

Yes, as many good focused pictures in daylight of serial numbers, receiver cover markings top and rear, bayonet, gas block receiver cover latch and magazine would be great for starters.

Edit: If you're sensitive about sharing numbers (I'm not, but I respect other's perspectives), at least pictures with one or two numbers blocked out so that we can compare the fonts of the letters and numbers on the back of the receiver cover and left receiver rail, especially, would be very helpful.

The same serial number appears on the stock, both pieces of the bolt assembly, the magazine, the trigger guard (see previous reply to Justin), the back of the dust cover, and the left side of the receiver. It reads "ж H 1917".

[Phosphorus32]

Great!  ЖН is a prefix known for 1949s and the first letter Ж (zh) is unique to 1949s, as far as I know. The font on the receiver cover is different from the receiver; note the lack of a serif on the 7, the narrower 9 and Ж, etc. That's not surprising with a heavily refurbished SKS-45.

[Chevy Boy]

Phos, you also wanted pictures of the bayonet, gas block, the cover latch, and magazine, here they are. And thanks for the info on the serials, what is the significance of the fonts?

Appreciate you being so willing to take the time to look these over and do a little educating.

[Phosphorus32]

The receiver cover latch has the loop, the lack of a "lightening cut" and the square (not angled) bayonet handle and bayonet locking lugs are all consistent with a 1949.

The significance of the font is that as originally stamped, not only the letters and numbers, but the fonts would have matched on all parts, so the receiver cover has been scrubbed and restamped during refurbishment. The overwhelming number of other early morphological (physical) features and the first letter Ж indicates that the receiver cover is, if not original to your carbine, at least the appropriate year.

You really have a nice SKS!  Normally, a black painted refurbished SKS-45 is a ding, but 1949s are rare enough in the US that it isn't a big ding. I hate to say it considering you bought it as a working gun, but I'd discourage you from using that as a woods gun.

[Bob_The_Student]

Very, very cool, Chevy!

[Greatguns]

It's ruined and worthless due to the late model sling. You should sell it to me

[Shoot The Refurbs]

Neat 49'! I'm sure one of the pro's will correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the mag also a refurb later variant with the bottom pin and re-stamped to match?

I agree with P32, I wouldn't use it for a brush gun, even heavy refurbs like this one, the 49's just don't pop up as often as they use to.
I'm sure myself or someone else around here would be happy to trade you a great shooter and some extra ammo or cash on top to sweeten the deal if you decide you'd prefer something that wouldn't make you feel bad about throwing it in the back of your truck and putting her up dirty. 

[Justin Hell]

Yep, I was looking for the lack of a rivet head on the magazine, so that was replaced at some point...it's got the correct bottom pinned stock ferrule.
It is so very nice to see these in any form...especially stateside. That is a rather valuable SKS.

[carls sks]

nice, thanks for sharing.

[Phosphorus32]

Yep, I was looking for the lack of a rivet head on the magazine, so that was replaced at some point...it's got the correct bottom pinned stock ferrule.
It is so very nice to see these in any form...especially stateside. That is a rather valuable SKS.

Yup, also scrubbed and restamped with that font having a serif on the 7, like on the receiver cover.

Chevy Boy , does it have a spring-loaded firing pin?

[Phosphorus32]

I said the Ж has only been observed on 1949 Tula carbines. Caveat, so far. An early 1950 is the only other possibility. There are only 11 of the 12 month code letters (first letter) seen in the serial number list that is currently "released" for 1950, so it remains possible that it could be an early 1950, given the scrubbed and restamped receiver cover. If Ж was inserted into the month codes for 1950, then it would be March, so 1st quarter production. What does the hive mind say? Still possible that it could be a transitional 1950 with all of these other early features?

Maybe running-man has filled that last hole for 1950 in his latest list?

[Larry D.]

What a beauty!
Who's the importer on that one?

I have to agree with the rest about using this one as a brush gun. Any one of us would be proud to own that little gem.

[pcke2000]

What a beauty!
Who's the importer on that one?

I have to agree with the rest about using this one as a brush gun. Any one of us would be proud to own that little gem.

Old Century (CAI) import

[running-man]

Late to the party on this one as usual, but definitely a keeper there Chevy!  That is a $3k to $4k gun these days.  Maybe more considering how few of them are floating around now.

I think this one is belongs firmly in the '49 slot simply due to the stock ferrule pin location.  They changed that one pretty early on in 1949 and most (if not all) the '49 blades & all the '50 transitionals I've seen have the ferrule pin on top. This one has the correct spike ferrule with the pin on bottom. 

As for prefix position #1 letters, P32 is correct, Ж is only seen (thusfar) in 1949 guns.
For 1949 we have:
А, В, Г, Е, Ж, М, Н, О, Р, Ю (10 total)
For 1950 we have:
Д, Е, З, И, Л, С, Т, У, Ф, Ш, Ю (11 total)

If P32's guesstimate of 12 total prefixes per year equalling one per month (which I too think is logical) it looks like there may still be 2 more '49 prefixes and 1 more '50 prefix yet to be found. 

1950:
Д, Е, З, И, Л, С, Т, У, Ф, Ш, Ю (11 total)

The only year which we have all prefix position #1 letters accounted for is oddly enough 1951:
А, В, Г, И, К, Л, М, Н, О, П, Р, Т (12 total)

But then I look at 1952, and I see 13 prefixes.  (The "E" has only a single bubba'd gun, but it has late features with a straight ear collar bayo.  It may have been placed into the incorrect slot)
А, В, Г, Е, З, И, К, Л, М, Н, О, С, Ю (13 total)

All the other years have less than 12 prefix position #1 letters.  Some, for example, 1955 have far less (only 2) and we are missing quite a few assuming it was a full production year.

[pcke2000]

Late to the party on this one as usual, but definitely a keeper there Chevy!  That is a $3k to $4k gun these days.  Maybe more considering how few of them are floating around now.

I think this one is belongs firmly in the '49 slot simply due to the stock ferrule pin location.  They changed that one pretty early on in 1949 and most (if not all) the '49 blades & all the '50 transitionals I've seen have the ferrule pin on top. This one has the correct spike ferrule with the pin on bottom. 

As for prefix position #1 letters, P32 is correct, Ж is only seen (thusfar) in 1949 guns.
For 1949 we have:
А, В, Г, Е, Ж, М, Н, О, Р, Ю (10 total)
For 1950 we have:
Д, Е, З, И, Л, С, Т, У, Ф, Ш, Ю (11 total)

If P32's guesstimate of 12 total prefixes per year equalling one per month (which I too think is logical) it looks like there may still be 2 more '49 prefixes and 1 more '50 prefix yet to be found. 

1950:
Д, Е, З, И, Л, С, Т, У, Ф, Ш, Ю (11 total)

The only year which we have all prefix position #1 letters accounted for is oddly enough 1951:
А, В, Г, И, К, Л, М, Н, О, П, Р, Т (12 total)

But then I look at 1952, and I see 13 prefixes.  (The "E" has only a single bubba'd gun, but it has late features with a straight ear collar bayo.  It may have been placed into the incorrect slot)
А, В, Г, Е, З, И, К, Л, М, Н, О, С, Ю (13 total)

All the other years have less than 12 prefix position #1 letters.  Some, for example, 1955 have far less (only 2) and we are missing quite a few assuming it was a full production year.

RM, thank you very much for the info! Very interesting. I have a strong impression (though I need to find out where I found the info) that mass and serialized SKS production did not start until late 1949 at Tula. So is it still possible that there might be multiple Cyrillic prefixes assigned for one month in 1949?