Author Topic: Why so many crossbolt stamps (left and right) on Canadian imports?  (Read 227 times)

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Offline Larry D.

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Re: Why so many crossbolt stamps (left and right) on Canadian imports?
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2019, 05:05:46 PM »
A couple of random thoughts and questions....

Arctic Birch and laminates will not shrink/expand,warp at the same rates.
Ever.
Heat and humidity can and wreak havoc on just about any manner of wood product. This is why we use various oils, lacquers, and shellacs to keep moisture out.
Did the different manufacturers use seasoned, kiln dried wood before the first cut was made? That would be about as small as a stock would ever get. Shellac would protect that stock from shrinkage if completely covered. Oils would expand it ever so slightly, probably not enough to really count.

What are the dimensions and tolerances we're talking about? Is the crossbolt to receiver fitment  tolerance 1 sixteenth or 1/10,000th of an inch?
I have absolutely no idea. I figure it's in between those two measurements.
What variance are we looking at?

How critical is that dimension? Is it a slip fit? Can it safely be tapped in place with a hammer? Can we adjust fitment? Does this require removal of metal, or wood?
If so, where are we removing material from?

All of these questions, when taken with the highly vaunted Soviet quality control, as well as the fact that these are combat rifles, would lead me to believe that there must be some small amount of slop built into the stocks.

Do we have any idea (even a rough estimate) the ratio of extra stocks versus complete rifles?
Were there 10 stocks for every 500 complete rifles?
I ask this because it might be helpful in trying to decide how long the replacement stocks might have been stored.

Do we know how often these replacement stocks were  inspected?

And, lastly, were all replacement stocks kept at the factory where they were produced, or at regional, or local armories?

I think if we can get definitive answers to these things, we might be able to draw some conclusions about the stampings.

 
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 05:16:15 PM by Larry D. »

Offline jaroslav

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Re: Why so many crossbolt stamps (left and right) on Canadian imports?
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2019, 08:13:50 PM »
I don't think there should be any concern about shrinking or warping of the stock. The size is too small. I'm thinking about something else. There would be probably a few workers making stocks. They would be paid by piece work. And they would stamp each piece they made with own stamp, so at the end of the shift they count how many stocks they made. And then another stamp of the worker who assembled the rifle. And then QC.

Online Greasemonkey

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Re: Why so many crossbolt stamps (left and right) on Canadian imports?
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2019, 09:54:45 PM »
Ok, I dug 2 out, an early refurb '50 Russian and a '58 Romanian.. the rest are buried including my '52 laminate Russian..

Figured no one else wanted to rip one apart chuckles1


Look at the gap between the crossbolt and receiver.. This is all Russian fitting, Russian stock and receiver, some warpage probably wouldn't affect it much, it has room.....ample room for movement

 now.. just wait for it......



This is the same Russian stock shown above fitted on a '58 Romanian, very snug fit, but it fits great, notice no gap..



Maybe its not a crossbolt issue, maybe it's the mount area on the barrel/receiver, or lack of on early rifles... this is the crossbolts mount on both rifles.. notice the Russian, very small and narrow vs. the Romanian large and wide mount, a lot more surface area. Even the flange on the barrel is noticeably thinner, almost half the thickness on the Russian.

Early Russian

Romanian


So I'm not biased to Romanians...Here are 3 Romanians and a 9 million /26\ Chinese(far right), all are wide vs. the above '50 Russian


A late '50's Soviet built.........Soviet Sino, again a wide mount and thick barrel flange.


Maybe..............there are 2 variations, maybe 3, early and late and maybe a universal fit all stock, like non chrome/chrome bores and all that jazz, there is a visible difference in where the crossbolt sits, on an early rifle there is not much tolerance vs. later rifles. Early rifles would have had less room for error on the crossbolt vs. later rifles with that wide flat, and a universal stock would be the best of both worlds.

I can not imagine the receivers being different, both of the ones I have measured the same from the rear to the flange where the barrel mates.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 11:15:31 PM by Greasemonkey »
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Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: Why so many crossbolt stamps (left and right) on Canadian imports?
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2019, 11:45:31 PM »
Im still convinced the crossbolt stamps were added periodically during storage inspections.  Why are they at the crossbolt area?....  why not?  It wouldn't make sense to put them at the wrist, tang, or the butt that gets rubbed alot.  Could have just as easily been in the finger groove like the Romanians.  Anything other then a protocol and dedicated standard location for said stamps would be.... chaos and unreliable.   Who wants to look for these things randomly stamped here, there, and everywhere?  Ivan knows where to look for the last storage 'all good' stamp and knows where its located before even touching the gun in the crate, and he knows where he is going to apply the new one. 

The Yugoslavians pulled theirs out of storage periodically to check them..... why not the Russians, or perhaps the Ukrainians?  The Yugos used a log book, the Russians stamped the stock. 
      
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Offline jaroslav

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Re: Why so many crossbolt stamps (left and right) on Canadian imports?
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2019, 11:31:49 AM »
Both mine 51 and 54 have only 4 crossbolt stamps each on the left side. If they were periodically inspected, they would have more stamps then 56,57,58.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: Why so many crossbolt stamps (left and right) on Canadian imports?
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2019, 01:30:22 PM »
Both mine 51 and 54 have only 4 crossbolt stamps each on the left side. If they were periodically inspected, they would have more stamps then 56,57,58.

Not entirely. 

Do you know when it was put in storage, taken out of storage, what facility, and how often that facility inspected stored rifles? 

How do you know this isn't a Russian practice and the rifle was sent to the Ukrainian at some point in time where they didn't adhere to this practice, and the others stayed behind in Russia consequently receiving more storage inspections?
      
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Offline Larry D.

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Re: Why so many crossbolt stamps (left and right) on Canadian imports?
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2019, 07:17:47 PM »
They would be paid by piece work. And they would stamp each piece they made with own stamp, so at the end of the shift they count how many stocks they made. And then another stamp of the worker who assembled the rifle. And then QC.

Would the workers be paid by the piece?
I would have thought that the system of government would frown on that practice.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: Why so many crossbolt stamps (left and right) on Canadian imports?
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2019, 08:22:52 PM »
Im sure they received their commie rations.
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.