Author Topic: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?  (Read 935 times)

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Offline running-man

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #60 on: March 15, 2019, 01:26:39 PM »
Yes jstin, the stock is the big one, though I couldn't say whether other piece parts haven't been freshened up as well.  Those crossbolt stamps are like nothing I've ever seen on a letter gun though. Makes me wonder why they would put them there when other stamps wouldn't have drawn so much attention.  The stamp body impressions on the wood around the S/N as well as the aspect ratio of the characters also point to aftermarket stamps, not the type typically used during initial builds.

Please don't get the impression that I'm ragging on your carbine here, it's in quite nice shape and would make a fine shooter.  Heck I'd love to have a dozen of these at the price you likely paid for it!!  If you didn't pay a premium for it being "unissued/unfired/non-refurbished" you did just fine, especially in the Canadian market.  It is simply not something that should be marketed as a collectible SKS since it has been 'humped'.  The WWII collectible firearms communities have dealt with this for quite a while, it appears we are going to have to deal with it in our little SKS community going forward as well.
      

Online Phosphorus32

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #61 on: March 15, 2019, 01:38:11 PM »
Dang it, I can't stand true humpers who deface historical firearms for fraudulent profiteering bat1 fart1

Offline jstin2

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #62 on: March 15, 2019, 02:45:45 PM »
What I can't fathom is why someone would go to trouble to fabricate the stock. I could see original or possibly at refurb doing this. If someone was going to profit doing so, I could see. But purchase price of $285.00 plus $40.00 shipping. And this is in Canadian dollars. It was only advertised as all matching and did not command a premium price. And if previous owner paid a higher price he would have jacked up my price. But I have to agree that there is something iffy about the stock.

Offline running-man

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #63 on: March 15, 2019, 06:39:26 PM »
Certainly not cost effective to do a single stock like that, but do that to the whole import batch and you're talking some real money. Even a 20% bump in price could be tens or hundreds of thousands of CAD.  This type of modification was done at a systematic level prior to being sold at retail.  Perhaps it was simply a way to move inventory that wasn't selling well as in the case of that 49 that languished on the westrifle website for years.  Hard to say why, we can only track that it indeed did happen and try and see a pattern in what they did so our membership can be on the lookout for it in the future.
      

Offline Boris Badinov

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #64 on: March 15, 2019, 08:30:04 PM »
Here's a similar unicorn fake.

Via...

yep...

Canada:


https://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=495.msg5859#msg5859

Offline jstin2

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #65 on: March 15, 2019, 10:24:40 PM »
I remember reading that there were several refurb facilities set up. Who is to say that the stock was replaced there and stamped. I find it odd that someone would have Russian stamps ready to use(other than Westrifle??). Sand out the old S/N's and restamp. What was done at refurb is still a mystery to all. Ivan could have done it as a joke. There is no date on it other than the И and several cross bolt stamps. It is easier to XXXX it out old S/N's and restamp. When Canadian Tire and Cabelas were selling the  average cost for a Tula SKS in Canada was around $250.00. Other retail outlets were around the same price. The super grade was about $100.00 to $150.00 extra. And like I mentioned before my price was $285.00 CDN.

Online Justin Hell

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #66 on: March 16, 2019, 11:36:01 AM »
What would be the average markup for retail sale in Canada?

If retail was around $250...they likely paid less than half of that. Invest in a set of stamps that on wood could be used indefinitely...get a semi accomplished woodworker...and a little time....it could easily be quite profitable to spruce up the less common ones to look like new, and charge nearly twice the price.   Canada did have the advantage of a much shorter learning curve than we did...because of the internet, and folks like us.  However, unless you REALLY invest a lot of time into research...it would be easy for mistakes to be made....especially since even now, the research is incomplete and likely flawed as a result....Dating stocks that shouldn't be dated is a symptom.
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Offline jstin2

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #67 on: March 16, 2019, 01:18:03 PM »
I know that when Canadian Tire and Cabelas were selling Russian SKS, there were no price differences between a rifle with a XXXX out stock and a normal stock. But you also got to check out several before buying. Also another item to consider is what was done at storage facilities and refurb since the USA embargo and now. Things could have changed in the many years that have past.

Offline Bob_The_Student

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #68 on: March 16, 2019, 01:50:35 PM »
  The stamp body impressions on the wood around the S/N as well as the aspect ratio of the characters also point to aftermarket stamps, not the type typically used during initial builds.

This confirmed what I thought I saw in my very limited knowledge. My thought is on the stock it may have been a blank and never serial'd why no xxxx out or sanding.

I agree also that it's a real nice shooter.

Offline running-man

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Re: All Original HARDWOOD 1957 and 1958 Letter Series?
« Reply #69 on: March 17, 2019, 03:28:43 PM »
I know that when Canadian Tire and Cabelas were selling Russian SKS, there were no price differences between a rifle with a XXXX out stock and a normal stock. But you also got to check out several before buying. Also another item to consider is what was done at storage facilities and refurb since the USA embargo and now. Things could have changed in the many years that have past.

I guess it could be jstin.  The thing I'm having such a hard time wrapping my head around is that I've shown conclusive proof with that '49 example in the other thread that SKS's are being actively humped while on Canadian soil (they are in the US too by the way).  Before chasing down the rabbit hole of the 'Russians changed refurb practices between the US imports and the Canadian ones', isn't it less of a stretch to to note that the majority of Westrifle guns are 'off', the humped guns we've seen are all tied to WR in some way, and a good majority of the other Canadian SKSs sold at retail in the past 5 years really don't have these 'off' traits (ie. they have std. refurbishment characteristics)?  Perhaps WR's exporter modified these, perhaps WR did it themselves, perhaps it's a third party that's doing it after they sell at wholesale.  The fact is, someone is doing it and the Canadian connection is ridiculously strong.

As justin hell points out, it is well worth it to do this type of 'freshening' in quantity just to make an additional $50 per rifle as long as the labor effort isn't too intensive.  I don't know that they were trying to deceive people that these guns are "unissued/non-nrefurbished/unfired" (which of course, now that they are out in the wild a good majority now assume), but they were certainly trying to make these guns appear to be in better condition than when they were pulled out of storage in.  The only reason they would do this is to make them easier to sell and/or to be able to sell them at a premium price to an unsuspecting milsurp market.