Author Topic: '70 Albanian...thoughts?  (Read 165 times)

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Online Bob_The_Student

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'70 Albanian...thoughts?
« on: November 18, 2018, 07:30:25 PM »
    This appears to me to be original but again I defer to all of you. It's in real nice shape and from what I have read and seen this may be rear for it's condition. Please let me know. Thanks

Some pitting on the bolt carrier. And rust in knurling of bayonet. Other than that it appears really nice condition. Thoughts please as far as any issues or originality. Thanks




































Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: '70 Albanian...thoughts?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2018, 07:49:27 PM »
To me... It looks like the stock was possibly refinished at some point... and it's missing a butt hole flap....which shouldn't be hard to find.

The pitting and what I would seem as inactive rust... That's just character to me..  oil it up and enjoy it.  thumb1
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Online Boris Badinov

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Re: '70 Albanian...thoughts?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2018, 07:51:51 PM »
Very nice!

Dude,  you might wanna go ahead and get another gun safe. Because the one you have now is about to burst.

The butt plate screws appear to be replacements, but I think they're pretty easy to find. Not sure if the lower trap doors are the same as the upper just upside down, but if they are the same it will also be easy to replace.

Nice catch. You dont see many Albanian stocks in that condition.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2018, 08:13:24 PM by Boris Badinov »

Online carls sks

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Re: '70 Albanian...thoughts?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2018, 07:56:47 PM »
nice one Bob.  thumb1
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Online Phosphorus32

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Re: '70 Albanian...thoughts?
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2018, 09:40:37 PM »
I wonder about the stock a bit. The grasping grooves look sharp but the finish looks so smooth for an Albanian  :))

Regardless, it's an Albanian. They don't grow on trees. thumb1

Online martin08

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Re: '70 Albanian...thoughts?
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2018, 10:29:49 PM »
Nice piece.  I also think the stock was prettied up with a light abrasive, such as bronze wool or scotch-brite pad, but not aggressively sanded.

Looks like original matching parts.  Not easy to find a whole one.

Online Bob_The_Student

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Re: '70 Albanian...thoughts?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2018, 06:56:59 AM »
Regarding the stock responses... Why do you guys think that it's been "touched up" (my term). What should I be looking at to know that it have been even slightly "touched up".


*For those of you that are not on GunBoards I ask a lot of questions. My "the_student" part of my name is my "FLASHING LIGHT/ BEACON" that I'm trying to learn. So be warned, I ask a lot (a lot) of questions. When I post a rifle I'm trying to learn about it. I have bought several rifles so I have a "living example" and at the same time hope I'm scoring a decent collectible. Just FYI.

Martin08 and Boris Badinov have been helping me, quite a bit, with their responses and examples for the most part. But there is another couple dozen or so that have also helped me out quite a bit also. Some of you know this as you are on both forums.

So thank you for all the input.

Online Boris Badinov

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Re: '70 Albanian...thoughts?
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2018, 07:24:27 AM »
Can you post some more close up photos of the stock?

Albanian stocks in this condition are extremely uncommon. If it wasn't caked and crammed with cosmoline when you got it, theres a possibility that the stock has been refinished (at least to some extent).

It very well could have been touched up PRE- or POST import. More photos of the stock might reveal  clues about the finish.

Online Boris Badinov

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Re: '70 Albanian...thoughts?
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2018, 07:30:06 AM »
Check out the finish on this Sino-Albanian letter rifle.

https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?669354-E-Letter-Type-56-Great-Leap-Gun-All-matching-Refurb-Afield-(-)-HR-pics-added

The above  linked letter rifle has very obviously been refinished. But the condition of the finish --especially at the stock fore end and hand guard -- indicate that the finish was done many years prior to import while it was still in Albanian hands.



« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 01:38:41 PM by Boris Badinov »

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: '70 Albanian...thoughts?
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2018, 12:37:23 PM »
What triggered my "refinished stock" response was the stock serial number stamp.. to me it looks to have been stained, usually the serial is not darker then the surrounding wood, a stain of some type would darken the numbers.




Here is an example of what I think of when I think of an unaltered stock serial...



To me with the finish sheen and the dark numbers it looks like it has been as you say.... touched up...  Some good photos in natural sunlight would be great and help. Besides..if I'm wrong about it, no harm, no foul.....I'm used to being wrong.. I've been wrong everyday for 24 years, cause I'm married... for now...  :o  chuckles1
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Re: '70 Albanian...thoughts?
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2018, 02:35:08 PM »
What triggered my "refinished stock" response was the stock serial number stamp.. to me it looks to have been stained, usually the serial is not darker then the surrounding wood, a stain of some type would darken the numbers.

I agree with GM here.  (did I just say that?!?)   A stock that clean and smooth just shouldn't have such dark S/N stampings.  Beat all to hell and soaked in grease for 50 years in storage yes, but that's just not what I'm seeing in the pictures.  The missing trapdoor is problematic too.  Sure it could have been removed for simple cleaning purposes by someone in the states, but if they went to that much trouble, how is it that the grooves in the S/N stamping are still filthy?  Usually OCD oriented collectors who would pull off a buttplate to clean the stock would never lose a trapdoor and would also be in there with toothpicks cleaning any gunk out of the major crevices.

Here are some more examples of stocks I'd consider to be relatively unmolested:









There's a pretty notable difference in the finish between these and yours.
      

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Re: '70 Albanian...thoughts?
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2018, 02:44:58 PM »
The butt plate screws appear to be replacements, but I think they're pretty easy to find. Not sure if the lower trap doors are the same as the upper just upside down, but if they are the same it will also be easy to replace.

If I remember correctly, the two trapdoors within an Albanian are indeed slightly different from one another with respect to the size of the hinge base loop that the buttplate screw goes through.  One of the doors is a direct replacement with a Chinese door and the other can be made to work with a little bit of custom fitment.  Just one of those idiosyncrasies with the Albanians that don't get talked about all that much.   dntknw1

      

Online Bob_The_Student

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Re: '70 Albanian...thoughts?
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2018, 06:49:33 PM »
OK, now it's making sense to me and your knowledge is what I seek. Now I shouldn't make that mistake again.

So my "hopeful original" is a refurb? light refurb?

What would a true value be in this condition?

I think the stock question is settled but if you guys want more photos let me know I will post. Thanks for the help. Living and Learning.

Online martin08

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Re: '70 Albanian...thoughts?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2018, 03:26:56 PM »
Looks like someone stripped the finish, not part of a refurb process, as no new shellac was introduced.


Online Bob_The_Student

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Re: '70 Albanian...thoughts?
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2018, 05:12:11 AM »
The butt plate trap door was in stock, just stuck open. However, it appears the spring on it is suspect. It works fine if I don't tighten the butt plate screws down all the way which leads to the plate being loose. So I have (2) questions about this. 1. Can these trap door springs be changed (I've seen just the springs)? 2. Where can I find surplus ANY SKS parts I have found a few websites but they don't have much. As mentioned above the trapdoors are different sizes that fit the Albanians.


Also looking for cleaning rod. The cleaning rod in this gun was a cleaning rod that was "cut to fit" so it just had a rod sitting there, no threads. I think somewhere someone told me I can use any cleaning rod is that true? Just grab a 17" cleaning rod? If anyone has a place to look for this also I appreciate the info. Obviously I see them on Ebay but waiting to hear what route is best. Thanks

Online echo1

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Re: '70 Albanian...thoughts?
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2018, 04:52:50 PM »
It's a good looking rifle regardless of previous wood work. At least it wasn't too heavy handed. You're amassing some nice iron there buster.  PAX
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Online Bob_The_Student

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Re: '70 Albanian...thoughts?
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2018, 04:39:19 AM »
Good early morning all!

Just wondering do you guys think this refinish could've of been done by Albanian arsenal? The reason I ask I'm paging through ended auctions to look at various guns (aka study) and I see this specimen with almost the same looking finish job. Just wondering if perhaps the stock was lightly touched by the arsenal or others are very good at doing the same type of light refinish to mimic each other. Thanks

Here is photo of stock from ended auction: (Just fyi it went for $610 I don't know what fees where)




then mine for your comparison pleasure:




Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: '70 Albanian...thoughts?
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2018, 12:26:23 PM »
Just what I see, it gets done alot more than people think. Yes, I would say both have been retouched here in the states. Why....Albania was a dirt poor nation, they pissed off Russia, later they pissed off China, so there was no real $$$$ backing, they was broke..... they were a function over looks, why blow money making nice pretty refurbs, when they were going to just get torn up in the field with use and that money could be spent keeping the gun operational. Usually if and when they did refurb one, it possibly got a no number new stock and non native made parts, no number replacement stocks are fairly common, they were imported way back when Albanian rifles first entered the US. Lots of SKS rifles were floating around the area during this time, like I said, I have an Albanian with a Yugoslavian numbered bolt and another one with a Russian top cover.

As RM showed above typically the numbers were not dark and stain filled, Albania didn't stain stocks, they were coated in an orangish shellac based finish and serials stamped in light colored finish and wood later after assembly. Another prime example is Romania, the same deal, another little dirt poor commie nation, Romanian stocks are typically beat to hell, have little if any finish left and covered in nicks and bumps. When I see a pretty, shiny, fluff and buffed Romanian SKS, I really question it, sure....they do exist, but are very few and far between.

In our culture....guns have to be pretty and aesthetically pleasing, numbers have to match, no one wants a ugly betty beater rifle, sure, pretty matching rifles sell unless they have bringback papers, bring backs usually dont get touched. And very few people will go out of their way to buy an ugly, beat to death, maybe mismatched rifle.  So....refinishing happens, love it or hate it, it happens, just like humping of M1 Garands and carbines happens, (Humping: the art of taking a arsenal mismatched rifle and making it totally maker matching to increase value) it can vary from just a scrub down of dirt, to just touching up finish, to a full sand, steam out the bumps and nicks and apply some goofy Home Depot/Lowes finish. but in the end, it will be "sharp" looking and typically at some point flipped for increased profit.

This would be deemed an ugly betty... still has a little finish and rough as a cob, and it's a replacement no number stock


Close up of the butt stock


Another...this is a Romanian example.. little if any finish remains
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 12:40:29 PM by Greasemonkey »
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Online running-man

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Re: '70 Albanian...thoughts?
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2018, 01:48:05 PM »
I personally think both were refinished in the states.  Neither has what I'd consider to be a typical Albanian finish.  It's definitely one of those things where it will never be proven to 99.999% certainty either way, but in the court of public opinion, both those Albanians have issues that would cause many collectors to shy away.
      

Online echo1

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Re: '70 Albanian...thoughts?
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2018, 02:25:52 PM »
I personally think both were refinished in the states.  Neither has what I'd consider to be a typical Albanian finish.  It's definitely one of those things where it will never be proven to 99.999% certainty either way, but in the court of public opinion, both those Albanians have issues that would cause many collectors to shy away.

True. But with the supply gone, regardless of accuracy of condition or price, you snooze you lose. Others MAY show up at some point, but how much time do you have to wait. In the 10 years I've been screwing around with SKSs, I'd never seen an Alby in person. Then a couple years ago, 2 showed up at my LGS within 6 months, and I swooped in on them fast. A 3rd showed up a little later on Calguns and I jumped on that guy too, refinished but good looking and the cheapest of the 3. PAX
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But they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of Independence from any who might attempt to abuse them. echo1

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