Author Topic: Letter Gun 1958  (Read 626 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline sagesbrush

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newber
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Letter Gun 1958
« on: October 11, 2018, 05:00:01 PM »
I picked this up for $380.00. All stamped matching gas tube is EP. No serial number on stock and the metal blue is a dull parkarized type. Bolt has a dull look.  From looking at your references it is probably a rework. It appears to have never been fired since rework and the internals show no use. I broke the entire gun down and could find no import mark of any type. Must have missed the stamp. It has a Chinese sling. When I broke it down it first looked like the internals were coated in rust, but it turned out to be a very hard/dry rust red Cosmoline.











« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 05:10:39 PM by sagesbrush »

Offline running-man

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: 4643
  • The only way to avoid Mosin #2 is avoid Mosin #1!
Re: Letter Gun 1958
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2018, 05:21:22 PM »
You're in the US right?  Very odd that you can't find the import mark.  Also *very* unusual to see a Russian gun w/o any kind of S/N on the stock; that is a very unusual feature on a gun imported from Russian storage.  Based on these observations, my first thought is that it may be something brought over the border from Canada or perhaps some kind of military bringback.  dntknw1  Who's to say though? 

Adding to the mystery, the УИ prefix is one I've never seen before.  Neat gun!  thumb1

P.S.  You stole it at that price!  dance2
      

Offline sagesbrush

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newber
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Letter Gun 1958
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2018, 05:24:35 PM »
Yes, I'm in the U.S.

I went over the entire thing with a hand lens. Still no import mark to be found.

Offline Boris Badinov

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 647
Re: Letter Gun 1958
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2018, 06:03:10 PM »
You're in the US right?  Very odd that you can't find the import mark.  Also *very* unusual to see a Russian gun w/o any kind of S/N on the stock; that is a very unusual feature on a gun imported from Russian storage.  Based on these observations, my first thought is that it may be something brought over the border from Canada or perhaps some kind of military bringback.  dntknw1  Who's to say though? 

Adding to the mystery, the УИ prefix is one I've never seen before.  Neat gun!  thumb1

P.S.  You stole it at that price!  dance2

The missing serial on the stock is common to the IC guns. But nothing else on this rifle says IC.

I'm curious about the matte grey carrier. Is that common on late guns?


To the op: You got a great deal. On a very bad day...still easily worth twice what you paid.

Nice catch!

Offline sagesbrush

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newber
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Letter Gun 1958
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2018, 06:37:43 PM »
What's an IC gun?

Offline running-man

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: 4643
  • The only way to avoid Mosin #2 is avoid Mosin #1!
Re: Letter Gun 1958
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2018, 08:42:42 PM »
Israeli Capture. These guns were imported into the states in the very early 80's. They sport CAI import stamps though. The ICs sent to Canada at this time didn't get import stamped, and this one may be one of those that hopped the border. 
      

Offline Boris Badinov

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Marksman
  • *
  • Posts: 647
Re: Letter Gun 1958
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2018, 09:33:26 PM »
Is the magazine pinned to limit capacity to 5 rounds?

Offline running-man

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: 4643
  • The only way to avoid Mosin #2 is avoid Mosin #1!
Re: Letter Gun 1958
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2018, 10:31:07 PM »
Possibly not relevant to this particukar gun, but certainly relevant to the overall discussion: From what I've read, bill C17 limiting magazine capacity in automatic and semi auto firearms phased into law in Canada between '92 & '94.
Since the IC guns were imported well before this, this is why we never see one with the 5 round Canada pin in place.  thumb1

Hey sagebrush, what's the finish of the stock look like?  Tons of varnish slathered on over existing the original finish (shellac) especially on the inside surfaces?  That would be indicative of an IC.
      

Offline sagesbrush

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newber
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Letter Gun 1958
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2018, 10:49:24 PM »
Is the magazine pinned to limit capacity to 5 rounds?

No. Normal ten round magazine.

Offline sagesbrush

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newber
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Letter Gun 1958
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2018, 10:54:52 PM »

Hey sagebrush, what's the finish of the stock look like?  Tons of varnish slathered on over existing the original finish (shellac) especially on the inside surfaces?  That would be indicative of an IC.

No, just your normal looking Russian laminated stock. Looks just like the laminated stocks I have on a couple of others Russians that are import marked.

Offline Bob_The_Student

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Rifleman
  • *
  • Posts: 131
Re: Letter Gun 1958
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2018, 05:27:10 AM »
You're in the US right?  Very odd that you can't find the import mark.  Also *very* unusual to see a Russian gun w/o any kind of S/N on the stock; that is a very unusual feature on a gun imported from Russian storage.  Based on these observations, my first thought is that it may be something brought over the border from Canada or perhaps some kind of military bringback.  dntknw1  Who's to say though? 

Adding to the mystery, the УИ prefix is one I've never seen before.  Neat gun!  thumb1

P.S.  You stole it at that price!  dance2

The missing serial on the stock is common to the IC guns. But nothing else on this rifle says IC.

I'm curious about the matte grey carrier. Is that common on late guns?


To the op: You got a great deal. On a very bad day...still easily worth twice what you paid.

Nice catch!


OK, so the OP gun to me is a refurb? Is that correct? The stock discussion is obvious but the dust cover looks BBQ'd to me. With that said, if I'm correct, why is this a $600+ gun? Is it because OP can't find an import mark? Or with or without stamp that's the value? I been putting these refurbs more in the $350-$550 range. Am I off base? Thanks

Online MxwllBkr

  • SKS-FILES CONTRIBUTOR
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Rifleman
  • *
  • Posts: 166
Re: Letter Gun 1958
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2018, 10:06:23 AM »
Avg price for heavy BBQ Refurbs tend to start around $450-500 now.......... have seen good looking Russian refurbs break 700+ at auction.

Offline sagesbrush

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newber
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Letter Gun 1958
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2018, 11:30:57 AM »
I'm the OP. No BBQ paint any where on this SKS. No rework stamp(s) anywhere.

Online Phosphorus32

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: 3610
  • Send lawyers guns and money...uh, skip the lawyers
Re: Letter Gun 1958
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2018, 11:55:37 AM »
Yeah, the only sign of refurbishment I see is the stock without a serial number. The bolt carrier serial number font matches the font on this 1958 Tula and has Russian inspection marks. The laminate stock is correct for the era of production. It's a beautiful SKS-45.

With no import mark and residual paraffinic preservative, RMs Canadian crossing hypothesis is plausible and probable. Though it seems less likely, it could be a Vietnam bringback from a cache (given the condition), and that would make it truly remarkable. Does the Chinese sling have any markings? It looks like an old authentic one. It'd be interesting to see if there's a date on it that could place it in the Vietnam era, or not.

In any case, it's a real beauty at a heckuva good price! You paid, easily, $300-400 below market value on that one.

Offline Greasemonkey

  • Professional foul mouth. Banned for life!! Certified Enabler
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • The only way to avoid SKS #2, is avoid SKS #1!
Re: Letter Gun 1958
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2018, 12:13:00 PM »
Just a question.....whats with that odd knurling on the bolt knob....think1 where is the usual or typical recessed/raised little square pattern, sorry...... but that line pattern stuck out when I really got to looking. I looked at other Russians posted here and that knob pattern is........funky, or maybe I should say...not typical.



I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline sagesbrush

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newber
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Letter Gun 1958
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2018, 12:13:25 PM »
Just the normal Chinese sks sling stamps. No date.

Offline running-man

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: 4643
  • The only way to avoid Mosin #2 is avoid Mosin #1!
Re: Letter Gun 1958
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2018, 12:47:00 PM »
Just a question.....whats with that odd knurling on the bolt knob....think1 where is the usual or typical recessed/raised little square pattern, sorry...... but that line pattern stuck out when I really got to looking. I looked at other Russians posted here and that knob pattern is........funky, or maybe I should say...not typical.

Dammit GM, you made me go back and look!  Knurling definitely changed sometime around the '58 timeframe.  Earlier carrier handles have the traditional waffle pattern:


To a more line oriented pattern in '57 (still with waffles):


To the pattern in the OP's post on '58 letter K series guns:







Though not all '58's have the line style, many still have the waffle pattern and I can still see signs that the waffle pattern is intact in some of my '58 examples above.  I wonder if the knurling die got worn (and had to eventually be replaced) or if the line style were knurled on different equipment than the original style handles.

Good catch GM, I'm glad the board didn't permaban you after all for your filthy language back in 2014!  chuckles1
      

Offline Greasemonkey

  • Professional foul mouth. Banned for life!! Certified Enabler
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • The only way to avoid SKS #2, is avoid SKS #1!
Re: Letter Gun 1958
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2018, 01:11:35 PM »
 rofl  I've tried turning over a new leaf and changing my evil ways... :)

So........... since where on the subject of jobs on knobs...   rofl2 whoops, it slipped, wind blew the leaf........  :)

Interesting stuffs.... Good, so it wasn't just me or Jimmys OCD. Just also interesting how Russia used a "raised" waffle pattern and looking at a Romanian knob, they used a "recessed" waffle pattern.   

I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline running-man

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sniper
  • *
  • Posts: 4643
  • The only way to avoid Mosin #2 is avoid Mosin #1!
Re: Letter Gun 1958
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2018, 01:40:52 PM »
OK, so the OP gun to me is a refurb? Is that correct? The stock discussion is obvious but the dust cover looks BBQ'd to me. With that said, if I'm correct, why is this a $600+ gun? Is it because OP can't find an import mark? Or with or without stamp that's the value? I been putting these refurbs more in the $350-$550 range. Am I off base? Thanks

Yes a refurb.  I think prices have continually crept up for Russians the past year (though I no longer keep up with the tracking threads so it's only supposition).  I think you are way low at $350.  $500 is probably the current low end of a non-bubba'd Russian SKS45s up to $700 or $800 for really nice BBQ examples with blonde replacement laminate stocks.  Gunstockmarket.com shows a median of just over $500 for all Russians, but that number is skewed by the way he handles his 'sold' auctions that don't meet reserve.
      

Offline Bob_The_Student

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Rifleman
  • *
  • Posts: 131
Re: Letter Gun 1958
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2018, 07:57:24 PM »
Sagebrush, I wasn't talking down your gun. I was looking at the dust cover picture and the bluing didn't look clear so I thought BBQ. It must be the lighting.





Thanks for all the input / info everyone.