Author Topic: Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......  (Read 1772 times)

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Offline KILLDOZER

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Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......
« on: September 22, 2017, 11:33:29 AM »

Just yesterday, I lucked into a deal on a near-mint triangle 26 (11-million#) that came with ammo,sling,case, and a spare stock-set. The spare stock is a serial-numbered, side swivel, and visibly used. I'd planned on using it on a paratrooper'd rifle that has a ratty old jungle stock on it, but I can't get the damn thing to fall into place. I tried it on the new rifle, as well, and it seemed to be jamming in the same place. It appears that it's hanging up on the metal bar that crosses through the middle of the stock (recoil lug,I think?).
I did some trimming on the front end of the rifle, to make sure it fully seats into the ferule, but that hasn't helped, in fact, it seems like that slight forward movement of the stock might be causing the rear part of the receiver to jam into the rear of the stock cavity now.
Unless I'm just brainfarting here, it looks like this stock is somehow out-of-spec. Anyone ever see that ? Any advice would be much appreciated.....

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Re: Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2017, 12:45:08 PM »
Could be that you're trying to set a rifle made for a pinned lug gun onto the short threaded lug of the /26\. The crossbolt position of the two versions is slightly different. Any chance you can post some photos of the problem area?  People typically hit the crossbokt with a dremel unril it fits. Very rarely, a not-so-bright bubba will hack at the barrel lug/receiver itself to get the stock to fit, but this is forever damaging to the resale value of the gun.
      

Online Boris Badinov

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Re: Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2017, 02:38:17 PM »
Could be that you're trying to set a rifle made for a pinned lug gun onto the short threaded lug of the /26\.

RM--

He's trying to drop a PARA into the stock that came with the 11th year /26\.

but pictures will definitely help forum members to help you, Killdozer.

Pics of the stock inletting and the Paratrooper barreled action.

Does the paratrooper have an arsenal stamp and serial number?

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Re: Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2017, 02:57:38 PM »
I tried it on the new rifle, as well, and it seemed to be jamming in the same place. It appears that it's hanging up on the metal bar that crosses through the middle of the stock (recoil lug,I think?).

I read this part to mean it didn't fit either rifle. No idea the config of the para, but that 11 mil /26\ is a short lug config. Any stock with a side swivel didn't originally belong to an 11 mil /26\ based on any example I've ever seen.  thumb1
      

Online Boris Badinov

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Re: Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2017, 03:18:04 PM »
Ah, yes.

Which has me thinking...possibly a late stock for something like a Security Rifle with pinned barrel? Or possibly and early /26\ stock that has seen a bit of shrinkage over time--possibly not having had a barreled action in it could lead to something like this over a long period of time?

Offline KILLDOZER

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Re: Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2017, 06:23:55 PM »
Thanks for the replies guys, more pics are gonna be tough to get right now, but I'll try to clarify as best I can.
 The new (to me) triangle 26 has all-matching numbers, except for what I was told was a non-original stock, that had been (very nicely) refinished, and now has no visible serial number. The spare stock appears to be identical to the one on the 26 ( same wood, same contours, same side-mount swivel, but has a visible non-matching serial number).
The para I mentioned was not originally a para, it was done by a gunsmith somewhere along the way. It's a arsenal 636, 22-miilion serial number, with non-threaded/pinned barrel. The 26 is a short-lug, threaded barrel.
As best I could tell, there was a good bit more than just a hair's width that would need to be dremeled off the lug, there's still a fair amount of metal interfering with the stock falling into place. I don't think it's a light dremeling sort of job (in fact, I don't think that's the remedy, at all.)
So, this spare stock jams up in the same way/place on both the older, threaded arsenal 26, and the later model non-threaded 636.
Just for the hell of it, I'm going to try to post the pic I have handy of the rifle and spare stock, but it'll take me a couple minutes to wrangle the ImgBB site.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 07:01:20 PM by KILLDOZER »

Offline KILLDOZER

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Re: Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2017, 06:30:20 PM »
This is the best i can manage, it's a pic of the whole ensemble as posted by the guy I got it from. (since they jacked us up on Photobucket, i can't seem to post the actual pic, just the link).
https://ibb.co/hGXV3k
Also, after looking closely at this pic again, I see that the contours on the two stocks are not identical. Maybe you guys can tell something about the stock from this pic.

And though it's probably not much help, here's a pic of the "paratrooper".....
https://ibb.co/cFLzX5
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 06:47:54 PM by KILLDOZER »

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Re: Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2017, 08:02:11 PM »
Definitely don't take a dremel to the crossbolt.

If crossbolt and barrel locking lug aren't matching up, some part in the inletting is preventing the barreled action from seating properly (I know, obvious). You've just got to find out where that spot (or spots) are in the inletting.

It'll work. It's been done many times by sks collectors, and with great results.

Google search might provide some useful links too.

Offline KILLDOZER

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Re: Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2017, 08:44:48 PM »
Thanks Boris. First, no worries, I wasn't about to start grinding !! It's not critical that this stock go on this para, and I'd hate to ruin a good stock.
One of the guys on the other SKS forum said that there are different sized stocks, one that will fit both pinned and short-lug rifles, and one that will fit long-lug rifles, and that's what I may have here. You guys concur with that?
Also, I spent a good bit of time messing with this, and I'm fairly confident that the barreled action isn't catching on anything but the cross bolt. It (barreled action) seems to insert fairly easily towrds the front and rear, but just pivots on that cross bolt. If I could just magically move that cross bolt about 1/4" forward, the rest would drop into place (as best I can tell).
But, I may go screw with it some more, and make sure there isn't some spot catching that I'm missing.
Thanks again to all for trying to help out.

Offline KILLDOZER

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Re: Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2017, 09:20:27 PM »
OK, I just compared the jungle stock to this new spare stock, side by side. I matched the base of the inner cavities on both stocks, which also perfectly lined up the ends of the stocks, and I could plainly see that the cross-bolt on the new wood stock was positioned noticably further to the front, compared to the one of the jungle stock, by a little over 1/8". It's a very noticable difference, the stocks were definitely manufactured to different dimensions.
Well, at least now I know for sure it's not just me, and it isn't a simple fix.

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Re: Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2017, 09:10:09 PM »
Could be that you're trying to set a rifle made for a pinned lug gun onto the short threaded lug of the /26\.

RM--

He's trying to drop a PARA into the stock that came with the 11th year /26\.



That means nothing. Paras are just surplus military models with the barrel cut down.

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Re: Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2017, 09:19:57 PM »
Have you compared the critical dimensions between the two stocks to see if there is a difference?

It is probably the angle of the picture, but the loose stock looks longer than the stock on the gun up by the front ferrule. Have you checked that?

Have you checked that the cross bolt isn't rotated? It has to face a certain way to properly engage the action.

Also, you said the barrel cut was done by a gunsmith. If he pulled all the parts off the barrel to machine down the barrel on a lathe, it's very possible that the rear sight block may not be seated all the way back against the receiver. That's a VERY tight fit part and often very hard to get back into place. He could have stopped just shy of fully seated, drilled a new groove in the receiver through the existing holes in the block, and called it a day. That would move the cross bolt lug forward.

Just throwing out ideas.

Offline KILLDOZER

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Re: Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2017, 08:08:23 AM »
Thanks Power Surge, I'll try to answer all the questions:
-I did compare the two stocks side-by-side. With the rear internal cutout of the stocks exactly even, the tip of the stocks were also even (so, no dimensional issues).
 But the cross bolt in the problem stock was positioned more than 1/8" further forward than the crossbolt on the jungle stock. This 1/8+ difference has been mentioned in some other posts I've since dredged up on-line about this problem.
- The flat part on the cross bolt is facing upwards on all cross bolts, as I believe they're supoosed to be. And besides, I don't think rotating it could cause any worse of a fit (since it's basically a circle), but i was thinking if i rotated it so the flat part was facing backwards, it might be the equivalent of shaving off the 1/8" I need. I dunno, does that make sense? Unfortunately, I haven't been able to test the theory, because I don't have the 2-pronged tool necessary for securing part of the bolt while I unscrew the other side with a flat-head.
- I'm pretty sure the barrel wasn't machined down, since it doesn't have the original sight post on it. It has an aftermarket post (great little unit form Prince50/BulletButton !) that is made for the larger diameter portion of a cut down barrel, which eliminates the need to lathe-down the barrel (and by extension, the need to remove the sight block).
 I believe he (gunsmith) just cut the barrel, crowned it, and then installed a prince50 sight.
So, going by what I'm seeing, and what I've since run across from several sources, it appears that I do have a stock made for a long-collar rifle, and short of jacking it up with some semi-major surgery, (which I'd prefer not to do, for fear of just wrecking an otherwise nice stock), I'm stuck with a stock I can't use.
I posted it last night on a couple local classified sites, at $45 or some x39 ammo, but no bites yet. (I didn't really expect any, especially since i came clean on it's compatibility issues).
Anyway, thanks for taking a few guesses, I appreciate any advice or info I can get.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 09:11:00 AM by KILLDOZER »

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Re: Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2017, 11:01:56 AM »
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to test the theory, because I don't have the 2-pronged tool necessary for securing part of the bolt while I unscrew the other side with a flat-head.

This is not quite correct KD.  You need to secure the flat screwdriver end and then spin the spanner wrench nut (part with the two holes) off the other side. Trying to turn the slotted end with a screwdriver will ruin the mortices in the stock. The mortices in the stock keep the crossbolt from being able to spin around.  It's a very common mistake.

The pinned stock onto a long/short lug barreled action is a very very common problem. You don't have many options:
  • Grind off a section of the receiver so it seats in the stock (this makes me cringe just typing it by the way).
  • Grind off a portion of the back of the crossbolt so the receiver can seat on a solid crossbolt.
  • Rotate the crossbolt like you mentioned. I've heard of this working, but have never tried it. It may be you still have to take a bit of material off, but not as much as off the back of the crossbolt.
  • Remove the crossbolt alltogether. The interference goes away, but so does the solid support the the crossbolt provides. With enough use, eventually the stock will crack on you.
  • Remove and replace the crossbolt with one that is ground. You can then return the stock to original with a simple crossbolt swap.
  • Sell the stock (or use it elsewhere) and try a different stock for this particular weapon.
  • Sell the weapon and get another one.
      

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Re: Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2017, 05:19:35 PM »
Thanks Power Surge, I'll try to answer all the questions:
-I did compare the two stocks side-by-side. With the rear internal cutout of the stocks exactly even, the tip of the stocks were also even (so, no dimensional issues).
 But the cross bolt in the problem stock was positioned more than 1/8" further forward than the crossbolt on the jungle stock. This 1/8+ difference has been mentioned in some other posts I've since dredged up on-line about this problem.
- The flat part on the cross bolt is facing upwards on all cross bolts, as I believe they're supoosed to be. And besides, I don't think rotating it could cause any worse of a fit (since it's basically a circle), but i was thinking if i rotated it so the flat part was facing backwards, it might be the equivalent of shaving off the 1/8" I need. I dunno, does that make sense? Unfortunately, I haven't been able to test the theory, because I don't have the 2-pronged tool necessary for securing part of the bolt while I unscrew the other side with a flat-head.
- I'm pretty sure the barrel wasn't machined down, since it doesn't have the original sight post on it. It has an aftermarket post (great little unit form Prince50/BulletButton !) that is made for the larger diameter portion of a cut down barrel, which eliminates the need to lathe-down the barrel (and by extension, the need to remove the sight block).
 I believe he (gunsmith) just cut the barrel, crowned it, and then installed a prince50 sight.
So, going by what I'm seeing, and what I've since run across from several sources, it appears that I do have a stock made for a long-collar rifle, and short of jacking it up with some semi-major surgery, (which I'd prefer not to do, for fear of just wrecking an otherwise nice stock), I'm stuck with a stock I can't use.
I posted it last night on a couple local classified sites, at $45 or some x39 ammo, but no bites yet. (I didn't really expect any, especially since i came clean on it's compatibility issues).
Anyway, thanks for taking a few guesses, I appreciate any advice or info I can get.

Just to make sure the cross bolt orientation is truly not the issue.... the cross bolt has two flat sides, and the remainder is rounded. The two flat sides should face up, and back. If your two flat sides face up, and forward, your cross bolt has rotated.

Another question.....have you tried this extra stock on the other rifle that you got it with?

Offline KILLDOZER

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Re: Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2017, 07:20:34 PM »
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to test the theory, because I don't have the 2-pronged tool necessary for securing part of the bolt while I unscrew the other side with a flat-head.

This is not quite correct KD.  You need to secure the flat screwdriver end and then spin the spanner wrench nut (part with the two holes) off the other side. Trying to turn the slotted end with a screwdriver will ruin the mortices in the stock. The mortices in the stock keep the crossbolt from being able to spin around.  It's a very common mistake.

The pinned stock onto a long/short lug barreled action is a very very common problem. You don't have many options:
  • Grind off a section of the receiver so it seats in the stock (this makes me cringe just typing it by the way).
  • Grind off a portion of the back of the crossbolt so the receiver can seat on a solid crossbolt.
  • Rotate the crossbolt like you mentioned. I've heard of this working, but have never tried it. It may be you still have to take a bit of material off, but not as much as off the back of the crossbolt.
  • Remove the crossbolt alltogether. The interference goes away, but so does the solid support the the crossbolt provides. With enough use, eventually the stock will crack on you.
  • Remove and replace the crossbolt with one that is ground. You can then return the stock to original with a simple crossbolt swap.
  • Sell the stock (or use it elsewhere) and try a different stock for this particular weapon.
  • Sell the weapon and get another one.

Many thanks (once again) for the solid info, RM.
The rifle (para) I was wanting to put this stock on actually has a stock, a fiberglass jungle stock, which ain't much to look at, but is perfectly functional. I just thought this new wood stock would look nice on that rifle, at least for a while. So, none of this is really critical. And, the rifle I just got, that came with this spare stock, is perfect as is, so there's nothing to get rid of here (fortunately).
And no worries, I wasn't about to do anything stupid like grinding anywhere on the barreled action, and I'm not even much inclined to mess with the stock, if it means serious, permanent alterations. I'll try to trade or sell it, and if not, I still did great on this recent deal.
Good idea on getting a spare cross bolt, and grinding on that one, but again, this isn't critical enough that I'm inclined to go to the trouble or expense. And besides, I still don't have the 2-pronged tool needed to remove it (any suggestions for a shortcut there?)

Offline KILLDOZER

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Re: Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2017, 07:32:24 PM »
Thanks Power Surge, I'll try to answer all the questions:
-I did compare the two stocks side-by-side. With the rear internal cutout of the stocks exactly even, the tip of the stocks were also even (so, no dimensional issues).
 But the cross bolt in the problem stock was positioned more than 1/8" further forward than the crossbolt on the jungle stock. This 1/8+ difference has been mentioned in some other posts I've since dredged up on-line about this problem.
- The flat part on the cross bolt is facing upwards on all cross bolts, as I believe they're supoosed to be. And besides, I don't think rotating it could cause any worse of a fit (since it's basically a circle), but i was thinking if i rotated it so the flat part was facing backwards, it might be the equivalent of shaving off the 1/8" I need. I dunno, does that make sense? Unfortunately, I haven't been able to test the theory, because I don't have the 2-pronged tool necessary for securing part of the bolt while I unscrew the other side with a flat-head.
- I'm pretty sure the barrel wasn't machined down, since it doesn't have the original sight post on it. It has an aftermarket post (great little unit form Prince50/BulletButton !) that is made for the larger diameter portion of a cut down barrel, which eliminates the need to lathe-down the barrel (and by extension, the need to remove the sight block).
 I believe he (gunsmith) just cut the barrel, crowned it, and then installed a prince50 sight.
So, going by what I'm seeing, and what I've since run across from several sources, it appears that I do have a stock made for a long-collar rifle, and short of jacking it up with some semi-major surgery, (which I'd prefer not to do, for fear of just wrecking an otherwise nice stock), I'm stuck with a stock I can't use.
I posted it last night on a couple local classified sites, at $45 or some x39 ammo, but no bites yet. (I didn't really expect any, especially since i came clean on it's compatibility issues).
Anyway, thanks for taking a few guesses, I appreciate any advice or info I can get.

Just to make sure the cross bolt orientation is truly not the issue.... the cross bolt has two flat sides, and the remainder is rounded. The two flat sides should face up, and back. If your two flat sides face up, and forward, your cross bolt has rotated.

Another question.....have you tried this extra stock on the other rifle that you got it with?

Thanks PS, I just checked again, and you're right, there's another flat side I didn't realize was there. The flat side with the most surface area, is facing upwards. The other flat side has a much smaller surface area (why I missed it), and is facing to the rear. So, everything's as it's supposed to be.
And yeah, after first running into this fitment problem, I disassembled the rifle that came with this spare stock, and had the identical problem.
So, again, other than doing some semi-major surgery that I'm not up for, I'm stuck with a long-collar stock I can't use (unless I can sell or trade it, but since I'm not going to stick some poor, unsuspecting slob with a stock he can't use, I stated in my 2 ads that this won't work with pinned or short-collar rifles, only long collars. So it's kind of a long-shot that I'll find the right buyer/trader. Fingers crossed.)
So it looks like this is a wrap, guys. Thanks again to all for weighing in and trying to help out !!     dance2

Offline likemeasks

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Re: Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2017, 01:00:04 AM »
Though it won't likely help your fit problem, for future use you can use a automotive type of snap ring pliers to remove the spanner nut on the stock cross bolt. An inexpensive plier set can be bought at auto part houses that have assorted "heads" for opening or closing a snap ring and some have heads that point straight, 45 degree and 90 degree. Just hold the bolt stationary with an appropriate size flat screw driver and the 90 degree head works best to turn the spanner nut. Some of the nuts are staked and take a little effort but I haven't met one yet that couldn't be removed. Also I have found a difference in the bolt diameter between a Yugo stock and some Russian and all Chinese stocks I have worked with. When installing the cross bolt I put a drop of Blue Loctite just to make sure nothing loosens up.
In all the discussion on this I've lost track so excuse my question. Have you determined if the extra stock is for a long nut or short nut and is it stamped with a serial number?     

Offline KILLDOZER

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Re: Can't get spare stock to fit on rifle.......
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2017, 09:27:20 AM »
Though it won't likely help your fit problem, for future use you can use a automotive type of snap ring pliers to remove the spanner nut on the stock cross bolt. An inexpensive plier set can be bought at auto part houses that have assorted "heads" for opening or closing a snap ring and some have heads that point straight, 45 degree and 90 degree. Just hold the bolt stationary with an appropriate size flat screw driver and the 90 degree head works best to turn the spanner nut. Some of the nuts are staked and take a little effort but I haven't met one yet that couldn't be removed. Also I have found a difference in the bolt diameter between a Yugo stock and some Russian and all Chinese stocks I have worked with. When installing the cross bolt I put a drop of Blue Loctite just to make sure nothing loosens up.
In all the discussion on this I've lost track so excuse my question. Have you determined if the extra stock is for a long nut or short nut and is it stamped with a serial number?   

Hey, thanks for the tip on the 'snap ring pliers".
This extra stock is side-swivel, and does have a ser # stamped next to it (5 large numbers). And, this is for a long-lug rifle.