Factory Blemish?

[Loose}{Cannon]

Right...  The crates do not even cradle them at this location.   

[Boris Badinov]

However the best explanation I've heard so far for the stripe: Aliens.

[Loose}{Cannon]

However the best explanation I've heard so far for the stripe: Aliens.

Ball lightning



I may or may have have made this.   

[newchi]

However the best explanation I've heard so far for the stripe: Aliens.

It was their early work, pre crop circles

[firstchoice]

At any rate, I see no stripe on this new acquisition, so it's likely a re-blue.  They did a great job, as it all matches up perfectly. 

IIRC, the stripe still shows up after rebluing. There must be some part of the processes involved in making the covers that makes the strip unavoidable. I've heard it explained as related to an annealing process that softens the metal up for stamping. But that explanation falls short IMO because none of the other variants (aside from USSR and NK) stamped the covers.

My guess is that the stripe is related to the process of shaping the covers-- involving intense heat some kind of mechanized anvil stamping that shapes, stretches, and turns the steel covers from shorter, mostly formless blanks. The stripe resulting from the addition of some type of gas that prevents the steel from cracking under the shaping process. Similar to the shaping and hardening process involved in the making of the katana swords-- which also have odd striping patterns.
...pardon my rambling

Is it too far of a stretch to think these Chinese Dust Covers/Receiver Covers were originally Russian unmarked parts that were left over from the Soviet-Sino startup days? The Chinese had all sorts of Russian parts. Maybe they just went ahead and used them, and Serial Numbered them in the Chinese marking way? Just throwing out a thought here...

  I don't know of any structural advantage that the annealling process would have made the Cover stronger in tensile strength, or more flexible. If there were advantages, other than softer metal for stampings, they may have made them thmselves to use. We may never know for absolute. But guessing always stirs debate. And debate usually hammers out a best guess answer. Until Uncle China wants to tell all they're secrets...

  firstchoice

[Boris Badinov]

[

Is it too far of a stretch to think these Chinese Dust Covers/Receiver Covers were originally Russian unmarked parts that were left over from the Soviet-Sino startup days?

firstchoice

It is a bit of a stretch.

China produced a steady average of 250-300k Type56 carbines for 25-30 years. And the stripe was standard for the entirety of Chinese production. It's highly improbable that the Soviets produced that many extra dust covers. Not to mention the continuity of the stripe on the Romy, Yugo, NK, Albanian, and NVA guns.

[Greasemonkey]

It is a bit of a stretch.

China produced a steady average of 250-300k Type56 carbines for 25-30 years. And the stripe was standard for the entirety of Chinese production. It's highly improbable that the Soviets produced that many extra dust covers. Not to mention the continuity of the stripe on the Romy, Yugo, NK, Albanian, and NVA guns.

Before one goes and makes a blanket statement of "the entirety of Chinese production".. Consider my SKS NR does not have the stripe.. These would be very late in Chinese SKS production. There is no discernible center stripe on the bottom or the top side of the cover... As far as I can tell, the NR cover is not reblued and it is the original cover.  Just as a random thought, what other late commercial models do not have it?

[Boris Badinov]

It's only a blanket statement out of context.

"The stripe WAS the standard for the entirety of Chinese production." Just as it was for every other national variant. The standard is not nullified because of a handful of apparent deviations from the standard. 

To narrow the focus of my statement, though, I specifically referred to the first 25-30years of Type56 production-- the Type56 designation having been abandoned in 1984.

But my best estimation would be that the Commercial mods and variants followed suit-- as the stripe persisted on military production rifles for 40 years -- 1949-1989.

IMO it can be safely asserted that the stripe was not added as an aesthetic afterthought-- so it has to be the direct result of a specific step in the the top-cover manufacturing process.

If a given rifle doesn't have the stripe, then that rifle is an exception to the norm. And just as with the Romy I posted above-- such a rifle a likely candidate for post production paint or re-blue or perma-blue.

I am in no way attempting to start a fire here. This specific issue of the stripe is something I have spent way too much time considering--- way too much time.

But the standard persists. The exceptions beg further examination of their deviation from the standard-- not vice versa.

From the one picture that cztulsa provided, I'm not entirely convinced that the cover is re-blued-- as the overall hue and texture bear a strong resemblance to perma-blue or similar process.

[Greasemonkey]

I'm not trying to argue it's just some covers do not display a stripe, or.....possibly were not part of/missed out on the process.. to say every cover by every military got the same treatment is a stretch IMO.. and since we are discussing it.... here are some exceptions to the norm.. 

I can't lay my hand on the good book and say "every cover got the treatment.." This is an old photo from a previous discussion.... elsewhere... note the far left cover. That is a Yugo, no stripe, nary a hint of one on either side. It's not a refurb, cover number matches the rifle, and I dug it straight out of a box from Numrich way, way back in the day.

The one on the far right is a '78 Albanian.. in person you need really good bright light to make out the stripe. Even on the bottom side, it's almost non existent.. another out the box from the importer, cover number also matches the rifle..  so I can in good faith say.... no alterations were done to either.


So there are two other examples from two other separate nations that the stripe is either so faint or inconspicuous it practically does not exist.  I still question whether or not that Yugoslavian has a stripe, or if it was even done.

[newchi]

This specific issue of the stripe is something I have spent way too much time considering--- way too much time.

Well thanks a bunch, i hadnt spent anytime thinking about it before and now i cant stop wondering what it is.

[running-man]

This is a good discussion. It's definitely something that has been speculated many times over in the last ten or twenty years.  Unfortunately, in my mind, speculation like this dredges up memories of 1956+millions=year.   

To move past that, I think we would need to start experimenting on a pair of covers. It would be destructive testing unfortunately, but it would at least begin to eliminate some of the more far fetched guesses ("It's from how they are stored in the crates!").

Some ideas that come to mind with both a striped and non-striped cover:

• Test the bluing under a mass spec and see if the stripe and non stripe areas are fundamentally different in some way.  (Not 100% certain this is possible on a thin layer of finish.)
• Strip the bluing and see if there is any discontinuity in the base metal under the finish.
• Perform hardness testing in numerous places to see if the heat treatment is consistent across the entire cover.
• Run it under a mass spec to see if the base metal changes across the entire cover.
• Slice the cover longitudinally and then grind the cut and acid etch to see the grain structure. This might show flow lines from the forging process.

Thoughts?

[carls sks]

  now I am going to have to check mine out, don't  know if they have those stripes or not. never gave any thought. 

[Boris Badinov]

This is a good discussion. It's definitely something that has been speculated many times over in the last ten or twenty years.  Unfortunately, in my mind, speculation like this dredges up memories of 1956+millions=year.   

To move past that, I think we would need to start experimenting on a pair of covers. It would be destructive testing unfortunately, but it would at least begin to eliminate some of the more far fetched guesses ("It's from how they are stored in the crates!").

Some ideas that come to mind with both a striped and non-striped cover:

• Test the bluing under a mass spec and see if the stripe and non stripe areas are fundamentally different in some way.  (Not 100% certain this is possible on a thin layer of finish.)
• Strip the bluing and see if there is any discontinuity in the base metal under the finish.
• Perform hardness testing in numerous places to see if the heat treatment is consistent across the entire cover.
• Run it under a mass spec to see if the base metal changes across the entire cover.
• Slice the cover longitudinally and then grind the cut and acid etch to see the grain structure. This might show flow lines from the forging process.

Thoughts?

I think it's a great idea. I don't have any spare covers lying around. But I'm willing to contribute funds to get the process rolling-- as covers aren't free and the processes involve will likely involve time and experts (also not free).

Seems as if it might be worth the effort to seek the opinion of a metalurgist before  anything.  ?

[Boris Badinov]

Seems as if it might be worth the effort to seek the opinion of a metalurgist before  anything.  ?

...meaning that a metalurgist might be able to explain the stripe without having to perform the destructive tests in the first place.

[newchi]

I thought the same thing, but there's no metallurgy schools within a days drive of me.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Are you able to do this RM?

[running-man]

A good portion of it. I have a colleague at the Air Force who is a metallurgist. I'll shoot her an email and see if she'd be receptive to helping us out.  A machine shop I frequent will be able to hardness test anything we want them to (they owe me several favors).  I also know a member who has daily access to a mass spec at his work that we might utilize.  The $64,000 question is whether it's worth putting this kind of effort into getting an answer. 

[Boris Badinov]

The $64,000 question is whether it's worth putting this kind of effort into getting an answer. 

Answer: Yes.

I'll take the $64,000 via PayPal or USPS Check. Large denomination cash payment also acceptable.

[Greasemonkey]

Oh boy.... destruction    So.. do it fairly across the board.. check and verify each nation to see if they up held the original design, a '49 SKS cover should be the base line, since that is the earliest thats around.... See who used different metal mixtures or hardness levels. 

So do one each of the big 5.... for giggles... you could chuck an NVA in there, but heck... it's just a Chinese and do a NK.. gotta see whats in that Jong-un junk that makes it so valuable, and maybe find out a Yugoslavian has a high chrome content, or if an early Chinese was forged in a rice patty furnace, maybe see if an EG cover is recycled K98s..


Do some off the shelf commercial ones too... cause they are soft and squishy as I found out a few years ago. 

[spongemonkey]

Oh boy.... destruction    So.. do it fairly across the board.. check and verify each nation to see if they up held the original design, a '49 SKS cover should be the base line, since that is the earliest thats around.... See who used different metal mixtures or hardness levels. 

So do one each of the big 5.... for giggles... you could chuck an NVA in there, but heck... it's just a Chinese and do a NK.. gotta see whats in that Jong-un junk that makes it so valuable, and maybe find out a Yugoslavian has a high chrome content, or if an early Chinese was forged in a rice patty furnace, maybe see if an EG cover is recycled K98s..


Do some off the shelf commercial ones too... cause they are soft and squishy as I found out a few years ago. 

Dont look like no reciever cover to me!