Author Topic: IBM M1 Carbine  (Read 3474 times)

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Online Phosphorus32

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IBM M1 Carbine
« on: February 04, 2017, 12:39:14 PM »
Stopped by the LGS "just to have a look at the used/consignment rack" (like a drunk stopping in the bar "just to see if they've got any new single malt Scotch bottles on the rack"  chuckles1 ...and this IBM M1 Carbine followed me home. Looking at the parts markings, it seems original except for the Saginaw bolt and wartime replacement, LW marked, stock. The AO on the receiver is Auto Ordnance, a sub contractor of slides (AOB marked on mine) bolts (not in my carbine) and receivers. Searching the internet I see the number 50K tossed about, not sure of it's veracity but if true that means AO supplied about 15% of the 348K carbines produced by IBM in late '43 through April '44.

The odd import mark is "MEREX, Savannah, GA.  The only references I can find on that are speculative. Apparently Arif Durrani, a Pakistani expatriate of Iran-Contra fame, claimed to have been acting for the Reagan Administration in their dealings with Iran.  The government threw cold water on his claim but I don't feel too trustful of either the defendant or the prosecution in this case  :))

LA Times article trying to track down who owns Merex.
http://articles.latimes.com/1987-03-31/news/mn-1549_1_arms-deal

1991 Article on Durrani's case
https://books.google.com/books?id=6ugCAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=merex+durrani&source=bl&ots=q6ty52fwga&sig=9zTyiHS0h1Cxv9VAQxmRoR2BO0E&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjmofuv-vbRAhVRx2MKHVT9DXMQ6AEIHzAB#v=onepage&q=merex%20durrani&f=false

The original Merex AG, out of Germany, not Savannah Georgia, was owned by an ex-German paratrooper Gerhard Mertins (MERtins EXport).

Anyhow, the story is unclear but interesting...

...The carbine itself is more interesting so enjoy the pics!













Should be LW-B marked for an original, where the B on all of the parts are subcontractors to IBM


Type 1 barrel band






Hammer


Sear


Trigger group body


Slide




Flat bolt


...Saginaw marked


Button safety

« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 06:28:11 PM by Phosphorus32 »

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: IBM M1 Carbine
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2017, 02:07:25 PM »
Nice....ya Enabler.. thumb1 thumb1   I guess I.B.M. stand for "I Bought Mine" now go find your own  fart1 rofl2

Couldn't load that LA times page, I found this. Sketchy at best, especially when you drag CIA and all that baggage in to the mix...sounds like an 80's cheesy version of Fast and Furious rofl2   The Interarms bit is kind of interesting..

Quote
Background to weapons and convert operations in Georgia
Since at least 1981, a worldwide network of independent [i.e., no direct U.S. government ties] companies, including airlines, aviation and military spare parts suppliers, and trading companies, has been utilized by the CIA and the U.S. government to illegally ship arms and military spare parts to Iran and to the Contras. These companies were set up with the approval and knowledge of senior CIA officials and other senior U.S. government officials and staffed primarily by ex-CIA, ex-FBI and ex-military officers.

These CIA-controlled companies include Aero Systems, Inc., of Miami, Arrow Air, Aero Systems Pvt. Ltd of Singapore, Hierax of Hong Kong, Pan Aviation in Miami, Merex in Georgia, Sur International, St. Lucia Airways, Global International Airways, International Air Tours of Nigeria, Continental Shelf Explorations, Inc., Jupiter, Florida, Varicon, Inc., Dane Aviation Supply of Miami, Parvus, Safir, International Trading and Investment Guaranty Corp., Ltd., Air America, CAA, and Information Security International Inc.

During the Iran Contra affair, General Secord’s arms shipments, arraigned through the CIA, transferred weapons destined for Central America to Merex Corporation, (Merex International Arms) of Savannah, Ga. The Merex address was occupied by Combat Military Ordinances Ltd., controlled by retired military officer James P. Atwood. Atwood, a retired Lieutenant Colonel of U.S. Military Intelligence, [and later a CIA contract worker], stationed in their Berlin office, was involved in major arms trades with CIA-sponsored international buyers, specifically Middle Eastern Arab states. Monzer Al-Kassar utilized the Merex firm for some of his weapons transactions with the CIA-controlled international weapons cartel.

Merex systems was founded by Otto Skorzeny’s associate Gerhard Mertins in Bonn after the war and was considered a CIA proprietary firm. Merex was close to and worked with the BND, the German intelligence service evolved from the CIA-controlled Gehlen organization. Atwood was involved with Interarmco, run by Samuel Cummings, an Englishman who ran the largest arms firm in the world. Cummings died in Monaco Carlo with a country place at Villars in the Swiss Alps. where he resettled in 1960 because he had looted his CIA employers and found European residence safer than Warrenton, Virginia.

Interarms (formerly Interarmco and officially the International Armaments Corporation) was the world’s largest private arms dealer, and once had enough weapons in their warehouses to equip forty U.S. divisions. The sole owner was Sam Cummings, who got his start working with the CIA to procure weapons for the 1954 coup in Guatemala

A most interesting individual was James P. Atwood (April 16, 1930- July 20, 1997).

A top US Army Intelligence agent and important CIA contract worker and former FBI employee who ran guns, drugs, counterfeit rare German daggers, stolen archives and much more in and out of various countries from his headquarters in Savannah, Georgia.

During his career, Atwood worked with the CIA’s Sam Cummings, Tom Nelson, Jim Critchfield and many others

Atwood’s activities are linked to Robert Crowley (who knew him and disliked him) ,to Jim Critchfield and a number of other CIA luminaries.

Arrested by the Army’s CIC in the early 60s, for misuse of government mail, tax fraud and other matters, Atwood got the CIA to force the charges against him dropped. All the paperwork was supposed to have been destroyed but a copy of the 62 count indictment plus the Chicago Federal judge’s orders have survived.

Atwood operated in the Middle East, Germany and Central America. He sold US secrets to Marcus Wolfe of the Stasi and the BND photographed them together in East Berlin

He smuggled guns into Guatemala and Nicaragua and drugs into the US.

Atwood’s role in supplying weapons and explosives to the Quebec Libré movement. The head of the Canada Desk at the Company was actively encouraging this group to split away from Canada. This is a chapter that the CIA does not want discussed. Atwood’s connections with Skorzeny and the IRA/Provo wing make dramatic reading. One of Atwood’s Irish connections is the man who ran the cell that blew up Lord Louis Mountbatten in 1979. There is also the shipping of weapons into the southern Mexican provinces by Atwood and his Guatemala based consortium. Oceanic Cargo.

Atwood died suddenly in his home town of Savannah, GA in 1997 while under the surgeon’s knife and left a legacy of double-dealing, amorality and fascinating but hitherto only guessed-at history behind him
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun – take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Online running-man

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Re: IBM M1 Carbine
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2017, 03:39:23 PM »
Good stuff all around!  Very nice gun and a good read.   clap1

What's an M1 like this run at your typical LGS, 8 bills?
      

Online Phosphorus32

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Re: IBM M1 Carbine
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2017, 06:41:42 PM »
Nice....ya Enabler.. thumb1 thumb1   I guess I.B.M. stand for "I Bought Mine" now go find your own  fart1 rofl2

 rofl   thumb1

Couldn't load that LA times page, I found this. Sketchy at best, especially when you drag CIA and all that baggage in to the mix...sounds like an 80's cheesy version of Fast and Furious rofl2   The Interarms bit is kind of interesting..

Sorry, fixed the link.  Where did you find the information you quoted?  ???  :)


Good stuff all around!  Very nice gun and a good read.   clap1

What's an M1 like this run at your typical LGS, 8 bills?

Thanks RM  :)  Yeah, you're in the ball park but I got this one for less.  A refurbed Inland shooter would be a good find at $700 list price, it'd be a good day indeed if you found one for $650.  I expect this nearly correct IBM, properly presented, would sell about midway between 1 and 2 K on the Broker.  The import stamp might bring the value down from that guesstimate but to me it's an interesting story in itself...and I actually don't care cuz this one isn't going anywhere  :)


Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: IBM M1 Carbine
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2017, 08:02:55 PM »
I found that blibbit of info tucked away on the CMP forum, it was an archived post.. I remember seeing that name pop up in some of the 80's import companies digging I was doing.  Not alot of about them and even less info on them which makes one really wonder.......sketchy.... :)  beware of black suvs with tinted windows rofl2

Maybe I.B.M. is short for Illegal Blood Money rofl rofl2
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun – take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Online Phosphorus32

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Re: IBM M1 Carbine
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2017, 11:47:30 PM »
Interesting stories. Who knows the truth but there sure isn't much good verifiable info about the US version of Merex. Atwood, Durrani, Mertins, CIA, BND...all, none or some combination? Fun stuff.

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: IBM M1 Carbine
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2017, 03:37:15 AM »
Here is the original text I quoted above, I tracked down the actual source thumb1 the importer is Merex International Arms.. 

https://joninews.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/international-arms-dealings-the-cia-and-%C2%93suitcase-atomic-bombs%C2%94/

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2005/3212_operation_condor.html

Quote
North also arranged for Merex International Arms to deliver 3 million rounds of ammunition to the Contras. Merex had a branch office in Savannah, Georgia. During the Contra support operation, its Georgia address was occupied by Combat Military Ordinances Ltd., controlled by CIA agent James P. Atwood, who operated in the Middle East, Germany, and Ibero-America. Among Atwood's collaborators in Skorzeny's Nazi network were Walter Rauff, Klaus Barbie, and Friedrich Schwendt.

Ok....now we got the CIA... And Nazis.  :o Da sh*ts gettin real now.. rofl2.  Next up UFOs, JFK, bigfoot, DB Cooper and alien bodies.... fart1

Operation Condor think1. Merex International mentioned here..along with Nazis again.
http://whowhatwhy.org/2017/01/11/dark-shadows-iran-contra-secret-wars-covert-operations-part-1/

https://glomardisclosure.com/2017/01/06/fbi-file-reveals-coverups-in-iran-contra-and-october-surprise-cases/

Ok....thats a really cool import mark P32 thumb1 I want one now, CIA, Nazis..South America, epic history thumb1
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 03:41:47 AM by Greasemonkey »
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun – take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Online Phosphorus32

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Re: IBM M1 Carbine
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2017, 08:02:07 AM »



Holy penguin guano Bateman!  ::)  rofl. Fun stuff GM, I had no idea there was so much uh, static, out there on the internet.

joninews looks like a plagiarist's blog. Why bother changing fonts when you cut and paste  thumb1  rofl

Lyndon Larouche  :o rofl Didn't know he was still kicking. So many nut jobs on both ends of the political spectrum  chuckles1

"glomardisclosure" now that's clever  ;)  :))

The "Deep State"?! You're killing me  rofl2

Probably some facts to be sifted out of all that chaff but...yikes!


I'll stick by my "the carbine itself is more interesting" statement.  :)

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: IBM M1 Carbine
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2017, 02:07:11 PM »
Hey Phos......every fairy tail has some amount of truth to it.  :o



 thumb1
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun – take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline oldcarjunkie

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Re: IBM M1 Carbine
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2017, 10:09:45 PM »
Nice rifle, i have a few myself
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 11:05:24 PM by oldcarjunkie »
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Offline Larry D.

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Re: IBM M1 Carbine
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2019, 01:27:51 PM »
I'll necro-post for this little beauty.

What a GREAT score!!
I haven't seen a decent type 1 sort of carbine for sale around here in years.
There have been several for sale that were rehashed back to that configuration, but yours appears to have been that way for a loooong time.

I have a nice Winchester that's been through the mill for upgrades, but I love it.
The M1 carbine is my all time favorite rifle to shoot. It's also a great little rifle to introduce new shooters to centerfire semiauto rifles.

Although the original post is 2 years old, I felt obligated to offer my opinion.


Online Phosphorus32

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Re: IBM M1 Carbine
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2019, 03:22:29 PM »
Thanks Larry!  I was very pleased to find it. I'd like to find out the real history of Merex with regard to this rifle someday.

I agree they're great shooters, especially for new shooters that have moved beyond rimfire. Nice soft shooter, easy to acquire peep sights, lightweight. I have a refurbished Rock-Ola with an excellent bore and the later style rear sight that is the more frequent shooter.

Offline Bob_The_Student

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Re: IBM M1 Carbine
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2019, 04:04:55 PM »
Sure is a beauty. Better than my "computer" carbine. P32 I'll give you what you paid for it. You must be bored of it by now. It's clearly lost value due to its age.  chuckles1 rofl

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Re: IBM M1 Carbine
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2019, 07:57:06 PM »
Sure is a beauty. Better than my "computer" carbine. P32 I'll give you what you paid for it. You must be bored of it by now. It's clearly lost value due to its age.  chuckles1 rofl

Thanks for the generous offer  :)) but I suspect it was worth considerably more than $750 even when I purchased it 2 years ago  dance2

Offline Matchka

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Re: IBM M1 Carbine
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2019, 11:35:14 PM »
Add this to the crazy mix: there are thousands of M1 carbines parked in a central arsenal warehouse in the Dominican Republic. Did a walk-thru a couple of years ago.  cry2

Offline kjohn

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Re: IBM M1 Carbine
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2019, 10:57:23 PM »
I own a reasonably nice old IBM M1 carbine.  Up here in Kanuckistan, they are deemed "prohibited" with their original evil 18" barrel.  That 1/2" too short makes them really bad!
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Online Phosphorus32

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Re: IBM M1 Carbine
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2019, 02:28:37 AM »
I own a reasonably nice old IBM M1 carbine.  Up here in Kanuckistan, they are deemed "prohibited" with their original evil 18" barrel.  That 1/2" too short makes them really bad!

 :( under 18.5” is “prohibited”

Down in the US, under 16” is a “Short Barreled Rifle”, since the 1934 National Firearms Act, thus subject to special paperwork, a $200 tax stamp, and a lengthy 8-12 month waiting period.

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: IBM M1 Carbine
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2019, 04:44:28 AM »
Then also...with barrel length....they measure the overall weapin length..there is a measurement for that, at 26 inches minimum...  some states measure overall length, and then some localites will measure a rifle with a folding stock thats been folded.

You can...... in theory have a barrel less than 16 Inches... By way of a permanent muzzle attachment.. some Vz.58s have the factory 15.4 inch barrel and a crude muzzle attachment to bring it to 16 inch, also some Suomis have the factory 12.3 inch barrel and a welded on tube to make up the rest.

But molest that extension.. Insta illegal if it's not 16 inches..  and don't get me started on them Mossberg Shockwave things..and Any Other Weapon.. just don't throw a stock on it..... :o
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun – take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline oldcarjunkie

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Re: IBM M1 Carbine
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2019, 12:26:16 PM »
Sure is a beauty. Better than my "computer" carbine. P32 I'll give you what you paid for it. You must be bored of it by now. It's clearly lost value due to its age.  chuckles1 rofl

Thanks for the generous offer  :)) but I suspect it was worth considerably more than $750 even when I purchased it 2 years ago  dance2

I hate to be the one to tell you but 750 is pretty much top of he price range for a Import marked carbine. You "might" get another 50 out of it but that about it. I have in the last two years bought import marked carbines for as little as 550.00. The collectors just dont favor them as they do ones that are not import marked. Since o am collecting all 10 makers i really dont care if it is or not so if i see one at a good deal i just pick it up.
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Online Phosphorus32

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Re: IBM M1 Carbine
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2019, 12:58:46 PM »
I'd agree with you for the Blue Sky imports, though I'd also be happy to buy import marked M1s for $550, even Blue Skys if the barrels weren't damaged by the heavy stamping they were known for. I disagree for a nearly all original IBM with a small mysterious import mark. Regardless, it's a moot point because it'll likely be up to my wife or children to sell this one and other firearms at Rock Island Auction when I no longer have need of it  :))