Author Topic: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT - Re-classification of certain Commercial models  (Read 8032 times)

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Offline montigre

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Re: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT - Re-classification of certain Commercial models
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2016, 10:01:47 AM »
Wow, PS, that is fantastic work you two put together--very solid investigation!!  thumb1 thumb1
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."  ~Benjamin Franklin

Offline fenceline

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Re: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT - Re-classification of certain Commercial models
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2016, 09:44:50 PM »
Except the "SKS-D" marked canadian imports brought in marked as such by China.  They did adopt the term eventually at some point.

That is an interesting point, but that particular rifle is a strange bird in itself. The ones that I've seen, and that Joe has in his database, are rifles that were made in the 2000s, over a decade after the original SKS-30 was produced. Those guns are also not new production like the SKS-30, they are modified existing rifles that appear to have been produced by the same arsenal that produced the MC-5D. And of all the pics of them I have, only ONE rifle says SKS-D on it, and it's markings don't look anything like the other rifles nor does the construction of the rifle. With that said, given when they were produced, I can only guess that the name may have been used after years of it being incorrectly referenced.

There are 3 types common up here. Of the one type labelled sks-d... all of that type bare the same markings.
RUSSIA SKS45: Tula 49, 50, 51 x2, 53 x2, 54, 57(И); Izhevsk 53, 54
POLAND SKS45: "W.P." Marked Tula 52
CHINA TYPE 56 CARBINE: /26\ 60 "S", 61, 64, 65, 66, 79; /UK5?\ 69; /256\ 70; /316\ 70; [0138] Stamped Receiver 70 x2; /306\ 71; /416\ 公安 73; /0412\ 78
CHINA Civilian: SKS-D (XZ), "SKS-D", Cdn Para x2
N. KOREA: T63
YUGO PAP M59: 66 C-Series x2; PAP M59/66a1: 73 J, 83 T
ALBANIA 561: 78

Searching: Romanian, German, Vietnamese, IC, and the rest...

Offline Power Surge

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Re: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT - Re-classification of certain Commercial models
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2016, 11:42:05 AM »
Except the "SKS-D" marked canadian imports brought in marked as such by China.  They did adopt the term eventually at some point.

That is an interesting point, but that particular rifle is a strange bird in itself. The ones that I've seen, and that Joe has in his database, are rifles that were made in the 2000s, over a decade after the original SKS-30 was produced. Those guns are also not new production like the SKS-30, they are modified existing rifles that appear to have been produced by the same arsenal that produced the MC-5D. And of all the pics of them I have, only ONE rifle says SKS-D on it, and it's markings don't look anything like the other rifles nor does the construction of the rifle. With that said, given when they were produced, I can only guess that the name may have been used after years of it being incorrectly referenced.

There are 3 types common up here. Of the one type labelled sks-d... all of that type bare the same markings.

Do you know anyone with these Canadian Ds? I would love to document them as a separate model, and with the various production differences. I have only got 4 of them in the database and not the best pics either. If know people who have them, I'd love to see some great pics of them, especially taken apart, the stampings, and the box labels if they still have the boxes.

Offline firstchoice

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Re: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT - Re-classification of certain Commercial models
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2016, 07:00:55 AM »
Great work PS! I'm glad that Joe's (XXXSKS) research is being recognized and appreciated! And, thanks for continuing the efforts!

Sal, did you ever find any China Sports boxes with the "SKS-30" designations on their labels? My Beta Arms rifles were definitely marked as such. It would be nice if we could find any China Sports examples with the same nomenclature. I know the China Sports rifles came with an Owners Manual, but I'm not sure if anything was printed on those that discerned the SKS-30 title, though.

I remember when Joe brought those old Shotgun News ads to the board for discussion. And how that those questions and observations started some great conversations. I'm looking forward to the update on the Commercial SKS pages!

firstchoice

Offline Power Surge

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Re: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT - Re-classification of certain Commercial models
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2016, 09:54:58 AM »
Great work PS! I'm glad that Joe's (XXXSKS) research is being recognized and appreciated! And, thanks for continuing the efforts!

Sal, did you ever find any China Sports boxes with the "SKS-30" designations on their labels? My Beta Arms rifles were definitely marked as such. It would be nice if we could find any China Sports examples with the same nomenclature. I know the China Sports rifles came with an Owners Manual, but I'm not sure if anything was printed on those that discerned the SKS-30 title, though.

I remember when Joe brought those old Shotgun News ads to the board for discussion. And how that those questions and observations started some great conversations. I'm looking forward to the update on the Commercial SKS pages!

firstchoice

I just looked at all the CSI ones on file. There are a few with boxes, but no shots of that part of the box :(

One interesting unrelated thing I noticed though....  on the CSI guns, the "MADE IN CHINA BY NORINCO" and the "7.62X39MM" portion of the stamping looks to have been done during receiver production, as they are very uniformly stamped and very straight. The "SKS" part and the China sports part were definitely stamped at a later time and by hand, as they are very heavily stamped and all over the place. Plus the "SKS" part was stamped in two different spots, depending on the individual rifle.

Offline padams8888

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Re: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT - Re-classification of certain Commercial models
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2016, 02:38:48 PM »
The CSI boxed one I sold does not have the sks30 anywhere on it. The boxed version I sold last year did.....but it was not a csi.....I think u have those pics Sal.....

Offline firstchoice

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Re: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT - Re-classification of certain Commercial models
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2016, 05:27:47 AM »
One of my Beta Arms boxes still has the Inventory Tag attached;





The other box had had the packing tape removed and the Inventory Tag apparently went with it.  :( 

Anybody, (GM?) have any info on Beta Arms and their current status, or date of demise, possible contact names, etc.?  I'd like to contact someone from that importer, if there's anyone still around to talk to?

firstchoice

Offline firstchoice

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Re: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT - Re-classification of certain Commercial models
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2016, 03:13:14 AM »
PS, is there a chance that you have the full ads on ads #3 and #4?  Ad #3 doesnt show the date of the S.G.N. issue and #4 doesn't show the company that advertised the  SKS-30. They're little things, but the little things all tied together make for a stronger, more complete case proven.

Plus, who knows, there may be more tidbits of hidden info that we can discuss or simply drool over.  thumb1

Thanks again for all your effort here!

firstchoice

Offline Power Surge

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Re: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT - Re-classification of certain Commercial models
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2016, 06:09:21 PM »
PS, is there a chance that you have the full ads on ads #3 and #4?  Ad #3 doesnt show the date of the S.G.N. issue and #4 doesn't show the company that advertised the  SKS-30. They're little things, but the little things all tied together make for a stronger, more complete case proven.

Plus, who knows, there may be more tidbits of hidden info that we can discuss or simply drool over.  thumb1

Thanks again for all your effort here!

firstchoice


Sure :)

The SGN date for #3 is March 20, 1989.

The company in #4 is called EBCO.

Offline newchi

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Re: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT - Re-classification of certain Commercial models
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2017, 07:28:39 PM »
First of all, i would like a m53 and a m44 at those prices you posted please, do you take paypal?  wink1
secondly, is this helpful?










image upload

Offline Power Surge

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Re: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT - Re-classification of certain Commercial models
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2017, 09:08:42 PM »
Wow, great pics. That gun is literally an SKS-M, with a 20" barrel. Short gas system and all.

Offline newchi

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Re: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT - Re-classification of certain Commercial models
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2017, 09:17:53 PM »
i was looking at past auctions up here while reading old threads, this was the only one not bubba'd with large enough photos to read the markings.
Doesnt mean anything to me, but i thought it might to your stats

Offline Power Surge

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Re: MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT - Re-classification of certain Commercial models
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2017, 09:23:50 PM »
i was looking at past auctions up here while reading old threads, this was the only one not bubba'd with large enough photos to read the markings.
Doesnt mean anything to me, but i thought it might to your stats

No, those are great pics. We obviously don't see any of the newer models here in the US.