Can the NVA be defined by Machining Methods?

[Loose}{Cannon]

Hey....   A production facility capable of making an exact copy of every component on a Chinese sks could have been supplying China with all the parts.   

[martin08]

Next up, rear sling swivel (and a possible split in Star-1 stock numbering pattern).


The rear sling swivel bracket on both of my Star-1 guns show a single punch stamp to reinforce the collar loop to the base.







Now compare to a  Chinese letter and M21







The loop shapes are also different.  Star-1 pictured first, M21 pictured second.





A few interesting notes:

1.  Although I did not find the similar punch stamp and loop shape on any of my other side-swivel Chinese guns, I did find a rear sling swivel with the same pattern on my North Korean and a Sino-Banian with a retrofitted beech stock.

2.  The stock numbering font (width) changed between the two Star-1 stocks at some time between serial numbers 642551 and 63369.

3.  Are we having fun yet?   

[martin08]

Worm!  You're back!

Wake the heck up!

[Loose}{Cannon]

I did find a rear sling swivel with the same pattern on my North Korean and a Sino-Banian with a retrofitted beech stock

.

Good...  Seems you have a chinese with a similar swivel.   


Pretty sure those are spot welds.......  The mark left kinda depends on how long the operator zaps it for, and of course when/where... Newb/veteran.


Next??

[Worm]

Worm!  You're back!

Wake the heck up!

*looooong stretch* *wipes eyes*

[Loose}{Cannon]

1958 3m Jianshe......    Next

[martin08]

As requested, the Q/C stamps on the bottom of the receiver flats.  Also included the barrel/receiver assembly numbers.


Star-1, 643369






Star-1, 642551

[martin08]

1958 3m Jianshe......    Next

So, now you're saying that my 64-prefix Star-1 is a '58 Jianshe???



Yes, I did find the same style on a Sino-banian, too.  And the Type-63.  So were these made in Taiwan?

[Loose}{Cannon]

No..  But your nva could be 1958 chinaman.   

[Loose}{Cannon]

Seriously...   Its a Chinese part that could have sat in a bin for x years. 

[martin08]

Stock finger relief cut.  Chinese Letter (top), Star-1 (bottom)

When did the size of the finger relief cut enlarge during the Chinese sequence?




Incidentally, the larger finger relief cut is also present on my M21 No's 8 and 9

[Loose}{Cannon]

Here's a pop quize...


What country sks used a 1-2 digit year dedignator at the beginning of the serial that numerically increased each year as the rest of the serial reset to #1?

[Loose}{Cannon]

Ill take 1961 6m for $800 Alex...

[Loose}{Cannon]

Everything your showing is some version of pre65 china.

[CARBINE]

*yaaaaaaawn*

Did I miss anything new while I was sleepin?



Doesn't look like it.

WOW! Long time no see, welcome back....

[Loose}{Cannon]

Ill take 1961 6m for $800 Alex...

Correction...  I believe the letterguns is where the long finger cut transition was..

[Worm]

*yaaaaaaawn*

Did I miss anything new while I was sleepin?



Doesn't look like it.

WOW! Long time no see, sell me back....

Long time! 

[martin08]

Everything your showing is some version of pre65 china.

Yes, and I'm showing the parts construction/machining on only two 64-prefix Star-1 guns.  Wish we could have a few more Star-1 guns to give a better sample.  It could be that my two received parts lots from one Chinese lot, and other Star-1 guns received parts from other Chinese lots.

But maybe something is established.  If my guns have Chinese stocks, and the large finger relief cuts began during the letter series run, then the Star-1 guns are at least newer than 1959-60.

So, we are making progress.

Then to the two-digit year indicator followed by the incremental production serial numbers, which is entirely logical/accepted, do the features which appear on the Star-1 also follow the general parts availability which were present on 1960-1965 Chinese guns?

Yes?  No.  Not on any of mine from that 60-65 period (front stock ferrule, bolt carrier machining), but I have only a limited selection to compare.  And maybe?  Let's see if others can come up with pictures of the same stock ferrule (sharp) stamping, and stripper clip guide (steep) relief cut on the 6-9mil guns.  If these part machining practices are specifically found on 60-65 Chinese guns, then perhaps the Star-1 guns were being assembled at Jianshe right alongside the /26\ - and that's a healthy possibility.

But if the same machining practices are not found on 60-65, might the evidence point to a dedicated set of small part or finish machines, and/or parts finishing and assembly on a dedicated line which was separate from /26\?  And who knows where that finished assembly took place.  We do know that random-year blank Chinese receivers were getting stamped with the Star-1, and with a sequential rolling serial, wherever that final production facility existed.

Then the side-topic:  The font on the stock number.  I just noticed that today, so I'm not sure if the different fonts follow a solid break, and falling somewhere in between the two serials of my guns?   Suppose I should start looking at other Star-1 examples from around the web.

[Loose}{Cannon]

This would all be assuming the Chinese could not have scrubbed or recycled previous parts or even used random old stock parts... Remember your import marked IC 12m with Russian stock?

Assumptions will kill the truth.

Finding pre 60 parts on a nva in no way shape or form equals assembled somewhere else.

[martin08]

Agreed.  By using the phrase "assembled somewhere else", does that imply that we know where they were assembled in the first place?   

Anyway, good topic, and good discussion.

Now, let's find some pics of positively identifiable Chinese guns with the stock ferrule and stripper clip guide features.  I need that info!