Author Topic: M59 Yugoslavian SKS  (Read 16029 times)

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Offline Worm

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2019, 07:34:41 PM »
"a refurb job, is a refurb job, no matter how one slices it. :) It comes down too where does one draw the line with the terminology... anything more than a rear sight leaf is a heavy refurb or would a bolt replacement constitute a light refurb..when in actuality, either of those could have possibly been a field repair. All those fancy terms have as many different definitions as there is collectors..

💯

Edit: Hope my pointless reply here didn't make anyone skip over the previous reply w/ questions on the last page. If so, go back. Muh bad

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2019, 07:36:33 PM »
Make sure it has the correct bayonet... M59 bayonets don't come easy......or cheap...and a M59/66 bayonet won't cut it. If your looking for or at a Long Barrel, those bring some serious money...as there are just a hand full known, and quite a few are owned by members here.

M59s hold their own on the field with all the others, even mismatched...IMHO.. The "B" series does seem less common than the "C" series, Import numbers of each aren't known, but being an earlier serial prefix, less probably exist... That's purely a guess. 9 times outta 10 they all have been rebuilt at some point in time, another thing is the dark stocks like mine has don't seem to be as common as the typical large grain lighter elm stocks.

Odds of finding a chrome bore aren't great..those Bosnian rebuilds some say have chrome bores... I've never seen one to verify. They will have the square M59/66 gasblock, that's the dead giveaway.
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2019, 10:32:43 PM »
HELP! OK, so a long barrel is early non letter prefixed with approx. 100 or less made. Next comes B and C series. "B" appears to be rare and not may have been imported in large numbers? "C" are way more common so let's focus on "C" series. (Ofcourse if I have misstated GM's info let me know).

"C" series:

- (I like matching...but OK if they just are to rare to find that way) So what's the chances of finding an all matching "C"?   Very good

- Is it common (or just likely) to find EP'd parts on "C"?  I would say common.
Remember, a different number other then the serial that is EPed is a production number applied during assembly and prior to serialization (normal) although this is more common on 59/66s.  Also, its common for yugos to not have the trigger guard, magazine, and receiver cover serialzed.  IIRC they didn't start serializing these parts until later in the 59/66s.   Yugos are a bit convoluted with numbers.  Your dealing with part #s, production #s, AND serial #s



- Barrels were not chrome lined so if barrel is chrome lined it has been replaced? GM answered

- Should [BK] be stamped on one or more parts of the gun/ stock? Yes, you will find them throughout the parts.

- Should the stock have TRZ1 or is this for rearsenaled guns only?  Rearsenal only

- Should I look for a TRZ1 gun?  Most all have it so don't let it be a deciding factor.

- Part numbers are throughout even on stock parts possibly (not serial number)? See above comments on serials of mags and triggers. All stocks are serialized matching the receiver if original.  No serial # means replacement. The only other number you may find on a yugo is the production number written in pencil in the finger groove..... likely going to be a brand new as-issed gun to find this still present. Also, yugos don't have stock finish.....  just cosmo soaked.  Stay away from anything with shellac etc

- The Bosnian ones made to look like M59 or mislabeled as M59.. common way to tell is gas cut off from grenade launcher? I hate these things

Anything else I'm missing?

Any help appreciated.

Thanks GM for your post about M59.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 10:52:12 PM by Loose}{Cannon »
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline running-man

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2019, 10:45:49 PM »
I think the easiest way to tell if the "M59" you might be looking at is a modified M59/66 is to look at the front sight block and the way the bayonet snaps into place when extended.  The cut down guns look 'funny', almost incomplete (note the stubby FSB, lack of cleaning rod nipples, extra cylinder for the bayonet hook to clip into, and lack of a hoop on the bayo collar to go over barrel on the cut down version):

True M59:




Cut down M59/66:



      

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2019, 10:54:13 PM »
Cut down M59/66:




Kill it!!!!!.......KILL IT NOW!!!!!!
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline running-man

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2019, 11:08:55 PM »
I don't see why you hate them so much....you know P50 says that your Yugo collection is total horse crap w/o at least 3 or 4 of these!!  chuckles1

(OK he may not have really said the horse crap part, but he definitely likes these arsenal butchered guns)
      

Offline Bob_The_Student

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2019, 03:53:13 AM »
OK, thanks for the info so far.

What's the easiest way to tell if stocks been sanded on these? Looking at the serial numbers (faint)? Any other easy ways to tell?

How do I know the bayonet from any other bayonet? Am I looking for 12 3/8" (9 1/8 blade) overall length for an M59? The long cut out in middle of blade? Would Hooper's info/photos be correct? http://www.yooperj.com/SKS-19.htm (asking cause some have said some info on his sight is out dated)

Gas Block:are they at 45 degree for original? I ask about 45 degree like early Russians because I swear I seen one like that and can't find it now.  Or do they have a slant to them and obviously not a 90 degree? Obviously RM's example is not 45 degree.

What's a value for M59 is there a premium over 59/66? So what would be the going rate for an all around gun that may be all original match vs forced match?
**Loose Cannon stated that trig guard, dust cover and mag not serialized sometimes. So if it is now marked/EP'd does that hurt the gun collector wise? OR is it understood this took place just like any other EP'd SKS variants in various places? And further if a MAG, TRIGGER GUARD or DUST COVER are not serialized it's understood this was common and does not hurt value? (STRICTLY TALKING SERIAL NUMBERS not part or manufacturer numbers). Or do collectors look at this as a way to not know if parts are original?

Different hues of the bluing on metal parts are common on the M59s also? Or does that only apply to 59/66 variant?

thanks for help and examples.

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2019, 07:40:33 AM »
The bayonet is a very dull/matte dark grey.. not true dull chrome looking silver like the rest. Almost looks like it was sandblasted.

I haven't seen many stocks sanded....unless bubba did it. Serials should be pretty clear, if faint or non existent... Someone may have sanded it here.

What I've seen, M59s will carry about a 100 to a 200 premium over the M59/66, over all condition carries some weight.

Study the picture of my orginial post to see the M59 gas block, the M59/66 is totally different, the M59 is more kind of like a later Russian or earlier Chinese.

In my opinion...your over complicating the serial numbers. Nerither of mine really have matching numbers...most parts just have the assembly numbers. The bolt and carrier have serial numbers and I think, one magazine. Do not expect to find serials stamped on every piece. If mismatched....they still hold value, maybe a handfull match, largely because they have been rebuilt who knows how many times.  Remember, Yugoslavia actually used these, they didn't just make them like other nations to collect dust and sell years later.

Yes.. you can find different shade of blueing, one of mine has a purpleish tint, not the normal deep dark blue. I've seen several, totally normal in my book.
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline Bob_The_Student

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2019, 08:57:45 AM »
OK, great. Much appreciated.

The only reason I ask about serials so much I'm trying to make sure I'm not getting something that isn't original (faked if you will). I keep learning daily how people are constantly faking guns/ parts etc..... so just trying to be cautious. That way if I see something I can say it doesn't sound or look right.

The bayonet do you agree has a long "cut" running almost length of blade as opposed to the shorter "cut" on 59/66? Is that a way to tell also? Does the lengths vary from 59 to 59/66 or do I simply look for the color only? Since they are expensive I want to make sure these are correct also.

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2019, 09:05:11 AM »
The m59 bayo is the same as a russian, romanian, early chinese etc only it has a matte grey finish.  The 59/66 bayo is longer then all others and wouldn't even mount unless the stock groove is extended. 
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2019, 09:18:58 AM »
I haven't seen any faked M59s short of them wanna be converted M59s.

The M59/66 bayonet is longer due to the launcher... Plus there is no barrel loop. There is also a difference in the blood grooves like you mention.
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline Matchka

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2019, 04:13:11 PM »
In about a week or so, gonna look at a fellow's 'M59'. Sold him my M-1 carbine, so he's giving me first buy/refusal. I'll follow up with all of the relevant pics for the group expertise to determine authenticity. He picked it up at a gun show many moons ago and is clearing out the safe - making room for more M-1 carbines!

Offline Direct Connection

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2019, 08:17:49 PM »
For the M59 the rule of thumb is that if the Receiver, stock, Bolt carrier and bolt all match, its considered all matching. But But But The bolt carrier has been scrubbed and epd to match ! And the mag and trigger group have been epd also ! ( And what) The workers at the arsenal needed something to do one winter day : ). like others been saying, A matching M59 isn't going to bring you a premium price over a non Matching. That's just the way it is with these trench cannons :)  When the 59/66 came into play YES, They stamped the mag, dust cover and tg also which in someone's opinion might make them a little more collectable but not necessarily more valuable or desirable than his older more reliable non matching brother.  rofl2
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Offline Matchka

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2019, 02:08:08 PM »
DC, Good to know. Do you know if the Yugoslavian's manufactured the 59 in a model-specific armory and how to date the YOM by serno and possibly the numbers produced? Yooper doesn't have much on these "trench cannons" (I like that!)?

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2019, 02:29:43 PM »
Because no one really knows when M59 production truely started.. some have said 1959, cause it's an M59.... Some others say 60-61-62-63-64-65-66-67-68.. who knows... Pick a winner... thumb1

They were made in the same armory as all the other SKSs, most Mausers, the M57 Tokarev a couple of Aks and probably the Yugo auto......or if you get the hatchback.....the Wego.
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2019, 03:04:59 PM »
Look for one in a Teak stock.....   GM will go kookoo for teak. 
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2019, 03:31:53 PM »
Look for one in a Teak stock.....   GM will go kookoo for teak. 

OMG... bat1

Seriously >:(
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline Loose}{Cannon

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2019, 04:08:50 PM »
See what I mean.....

 rofl
      
1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms... It doesn't matter how many Lenins you get out on the street begging for them to be taken.

Offline Greasemonkey

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2019, 05:07:19 PM »
See what I mean.....

 rofl

Had to go there didn't ya... Teak... BAH!!   It's a gun stock, not a fricken multi million dollar Robin Leach rich and famous yeehaw look at me yacht.

 :))
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse......

Leave the gun take the cannoli.

I said I was an addict........I didn't say I had a problem

Offline Justin Hell

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Re: M59 Yugoslavian SKS
« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2019, 09:39:30 AM »
So, I have heard that 1TRZ was only concerned with the furniture is that correct?
My M59 has a matching serialed stock, there are two huge x's across the butt over the serial vertically...but I chalked those up to trench 'art'?  It is stamped 1TRZ on the stock, but not the handguard as I have seen several times before.

The stock seems refinished vs. the handguard. The handguard is kind of discolored by filth...the stock seems as if it likely was too...but cleaned and then lightly coated with what appears to be shellac. But, perhaps the wood just seems to have a sheen on it from handling? 

There was enough internal cosmoline left that I don't think this had been fired since importation...and it seems competely off base for the PO to have refinished the stock, skipped the handguard...and never bothered to clean the gun?  Is this along the lines of something that sounds 1TRZish?   

Unfortunately, I have handled precisely one M59...this one. I have to live vicariously through the internet...
It appears matching, Yugo style anyway...the carrier penciled on the side as is the trigger frame.  The gas tube, likely isn't original...there is BX something penciled on the tube itself under the handguard and a 47 penciled under the front end on the bottom flat...47 has nothing to do with my numbers. The handguard ferrule has at some point been removed...yet does not appear to be shellacked and is a considerable mismatch in appearance.  This lends me to think the PO didn't refinish it...as they likely would have. (perhaps at a light cleaning the PO accidentally switched my gas tube with another before consigning)

Anyway great thread GM...this is my go to spot for info on this model.  thumb1