Need help identifying my SKS

[wineguy]

More photos can be seen here:  http://s583.photobucket.com/user/wineforall/library/Firearms/SKS


Hi Gents, I'm new to the forum, can anyone give me some help dating and identifying my SKS?  I purchased it over thirty years ago in a gun show in NY and it did not come with papers but I was told it was a war trophy(what we called them back then) or bring back, there are no importer markings. The serial number is consistent throughout the rifle including the stock and the only other markings I can find are on the left side of the receiver(see pic).  I have not separated the receiver from the stock because the retaining screw is frozen and I'm concerned I'll strip the head.  I fired a few rounds through it when I purchased it back in the late 70's (ammo was hard to come by back then) but none since and the original cosmoline can still be found on the buffer spring.  One detail seems to stand out is that the barrel has very fine grooves milled into the exterior surface(see pic).  I have not seen that feature mentioned an any of the FAQ"s or pages that deal with identifying details.  Thanks! 

[Power Surge]

Well, it was built at arsenal 0138. Some arsenals in the 70s started using the actual year as the year identifier, so yours SHOULD be a 1975 rifle. Looking at your pics, everything looks right for a late build rifle, although it does have a short lug screw in barrel, where as most mid 70s guns were pinned. Maybe Running man can chime in on that one.

Usually no import marks are an indication of a bring back, but I would find it a bit hard to believe being such a late build gun.

Oh, and your bayonet is upside down .  Take out the screw, twist it 180 and put the screw back in.

[Power Surge]

Oh also...the stock does not come off by that screw. To remove the stock, flip the safety on. At the rear of the trigger guard, you will see a little nub sticking out with a hole in the center. Take a phillips screwdriver or something similar, place it in the hole of the nub, and give it a whack. That will pop the trigger assembly out. then you can pull the magazine out. Then the receiver will come out of the stock.

[wineguy]

Oh also...the stock does not come off by that screw. To remove the stock, flip the safety on. At the rear of the trigger guard, you will see a little nub sticking out with a hole in the center. Take a phillips screwdriver or something similar, place it in the hole of the nub, and give it a whack. That will pop the trigger assembly out. then you can pull the magazine out. Then the receiver will come out of the stock.

Thanks!  Got the action out and no additional markings. Flipped the bayonet...thanks again!  Only markings are those on the side receiver and the repeated serial number, no importer.  Is the grooved barrel significant?

[Power Surge]

Oh also...the stock does not come off by that screw. To remove the stock, flip the safety on. At the rear of the trigger guard, you will see a little nub sticking out with a hole in the center. Take a phillips screwdriver or something similar, place it in the hole of the nub, and give it a whack. That will pop the trigger assembly out. then you can pull the magazine out. Then the receiver will come out of the stock.

Is the grooved barrel significant?

Well I was always under the impression that those grooved markings were from the tool that held the barrel on pressed in models. Because I have only seen those grooved barrels on pressed models. But yours is a short lug screw in, so honestly I'm at a loss for an answer.

[wineguy]

Oh also...the stock does not come off by that screw. To remove the stock, flip the safety on. At the rear of the trigger guard, you will see a little nub sticking out with a hole in the center. Take a phillips screwdriver or something similar, place it in the hole of the nub, and give it a whack. That will pop the trigger assembly out. then you can pull the magazine out. Then the receiver will come out of the stock.

Is the grooved barrel significant?

Well I was always under the impression that those grooved markings were from the tool that held the barrel on pressed in models. Because I have only seen those grooved barrels on pressed models. But yours is a short lug screw in, so honestly I'm at a loss for an answer.

The grooves run the entire length of the barrel and only stops where rear sight block, stock retainer and gas return attach.  Doesn't seem to be something a tool that held the barrel could impart...seems machined or lathed.  Almost like a heat dissipater.

[Power Surge]

Oh also...the stock does not come off by that screw. To remove the stock, flip the safety on. At the rear of the trigger guard, you will see a little nub sticking out with a hole in the center. Take a phillips screwdriver or something similar, place it in the hole of the nub, and give it a whack. That will pop the trigger assembly out. then you can pull the magazine out. Then the receiver will come out of the stock.

Is the grooved barrel significant?

Well I was always under the impression that those grooved markings were from the tool that held the barrel on pressed in models. Because I have only seen those grooved barrels on pressed models. But yours is a short lug screw in, so honestly I'm at a loss for an answer.

The grooves run the entire length of the barrel and only stops where rear sight block, stock retainer and gas return attach.  Doesn't seem to be something a tool that held the barrel could impart...seems machined or lathed.  Almost like a heat dissipater.

I'm really not sure. That's not something I ever recall being discussed before. I have only seen that on pinned barrel guns. And on some it's really obvious like yours, and others it's barely noticeable.

[wineguy]

Well either way thanks for being the first to respond and all the helpful info, really appreciate it!

[Power Surge]

Well either way thanks for being the first to respond and all the helpful info, really appreciate it!

No problem. You'll get more responses from others too. We're a good group here. 

[Loose}{Cannon]

This late of a build cannot possibly be a bringback.  Being from NY that long ago, it could very likely be a border hopper from Canada.  Those ringed spiral marks are from cutting the profile of the barrel with a dull/worn out cutting bit on the lathe..... It happens, especially with less experienced machine operators and when the cutting speed is a bit to fast.

[Power Surge]

This late of a build cannot possibly be a bringback.  Being from NY that long ago, it could very likely be a border hopper from Canada.  Those ringed spiral marks are from cutting the profile of the barrel with a dull/worn out cutting bit on the lathe..... It happens, especially with less experienced machine operators and when the cutting speed is a bit to fast.

I think you nailed it. Not a worn bit though... let me explain.  I just looked at my MC5D which has some pretty heavy markings, and they are definitely lathe cuts. You can see smooth areas of the barrel too, where it's still not completely round  (low spots) but they chose not to cut anymore. Now I have a Chinese letter gun barrel and receiver parts gun. Looking closely at it, you can see some hints of lathe marks. However, if you look closely at the barrel, you will also see that it's been smoothed out on the lathe with a sanding belt after machining, giving it a very smooth finish.

So basically, some arsenals must have just stopped the finish sand on the barrels after machining in later production.

[wineguy]

Those ringed spiral marks are from cutting the profile of the barrel with a dull/worn out cutting bit on the lathe.....

The grooving is very consistent and even, they are individual rings not a spiral and they cleanly stop for an inch where the stock retaining cap is mounted as well as where the gas return junction is attached.  They also stop beneath the rear sight block. At those spots the barrel is perfectly smooth so the effect seems most intentional.  I'll post some detailed pictures tomorrow.  Thanks you both for the input!

[Power Surge]

Those ringed spiral marks are from cutting the profile of the barrel with a dull/worn out cutting bit on the lathe.....

The grooving is very consistent and even, they are individual rings not a spiral and they cleanly stop for an inch where the stock retaining cap is mounted as well as where the gas return junction is attached.  They also stop beneath the rear sight block. At those spots the barrel is perfectly smooth so the effect seems most intentional.  I'll post some detailed pictures tomorrow.  Thanks you both for the input!

They're definitely lathe marks, I'm a machinist. They stop at the parts of the barrel where something gets pressed on and pinned. I have several guns with this pattern on it. Just never gave any thought to it.

[Loose}{Cannon]

I been working a lathe for 30 years....    But who knows.   

[running-man]

Nice specimen OP. 

I'll toss out what I know about the [0138]s, which admittedly isn't much.  The lowest [0138] gun I can find in both S/N and year designator are guns in the 7,0XX,XXX range.  One might be tempted to think that they follow the common 'nth year built' (7th year built for a 7 million prefix) as the /26\ guns appear to, unfortunately the highest S/N I find for a 70 prefixed gun is 700697x which gives us 6970 guns in the run.  Then the S/N jumps to 7,1XX,XXX, certainly we are not missing 95 thousand guns?!  It continues this way from 72 through 76 with a max of 9100 guns so far found in any particular series.  Moreover, some of the other arsenals chose to segregate the prefix from the incrementing portion of the S/N like this:


70 and 71 prefixed guns were 100% stamped receiver guns with pressed and pinned barrels.  72 guns were rough cast receivers with short lug barrels.  I have no info on 73 prefixed guns.  74 prefixed gun examples I have show some areas of really nice workmanship with short lug barrels, I think the receivers are cast but honestly I can't tell because they have been polished whereas the 72's were not.  75s like the OP's have shot lug barrels and some clearly cast components (like the OPs gas block and RSB) but the workmanship is clearly better than the 72 & maybe even the 74 series.  76s for all intents and purposes look just like 75's.  All [0138] guns that I've seen with original stocks have side swivels on them regardless of year, this is one feature that remained constant from this factory.

There is a change in S/N nomenclature after 76 where we see the nth year of production prefixes show up at year 23 (1978).  The guns are built the same though with short lug barrels and clearly cast components.  Build quality is no better than it was in the 76 series and this continues through the year 24 & 25 guns.  After year 25, I find no evidence that [0138]s continue to be built.  Year 25 indicates 1980 and this would have been when the Chinese were beginning to get the type 81 ready and repurposing various factories still making 'obsolete' weapons. 

If it is really a '75 fabricated firearm and the wear is indicative of it's initial issuance and use until capture, I'd be hard pressed to come up with a plausible scenario where it is built in China, transported brand new to VN, issued and utilized for a brief time, and then is captured and comes into the hands of an American serviceman who then is likely one of the last ones to leave the country as there were only 62 confirmed US casualties in all of 1975.  It could happen I guess, but this would be the first rectangle arsenal type 56 that I've ever seen proposed as a VN bringback.  Still, neat stuff thanks for sharing. 

[wineguy]

Here are a few more detail photos of the components, perhaps this will help you mavens figure out the lineage of the rifle.  One correction to my original post...I purchased the rifle in mid 1986, not 1979 as I thought.  I had an FFL in the '80's and just checked my old log book...senior moment ;-).  As mentioned earlier, there are no importer markings at all.  I'm still intrigued by the grooves on the barrel, they are intentional and not random nor the results of poor lathe work.  I haven't seen them on other SKS rifles so surely they mean something as far as provenance.  Thanks to all for the sleuthing!

[montigre]

Welcome to the forums...

I believe you have a very nice end of production run for factory [0138] as your SKS has a bit of a mis mash of stamped, cast and milled parts that would lend me to believe they were using up already available parts.  They were doing this because factory [0138], along with many other arms factories, were absorbed into the state-owned Norinco (China North Industries Corporation) in 1980-ish.

The bands on the barrel are definitely lathe marks; again supporting end of run time-saving procedures--why smooth the entire barrel if just a couple of inches where parts are fitted will do just as well?  I was also a machinist in a previous life.

With regard to the bring back theory, I really do not believe your SKS fits the profile.  Not all guns without import marks indicate it is a bring back.  The lack of import marks is most likely just a miss by the importer--many milsurps were coming into the country in the mid-late 80s and this actually happened more than you would imagine.  As has been mentioned already, your SKS was manufactured in 1975, so it does not seem plausible that a new gun would be issued in the very last moments of the war, be immediately captured by a GI who just happened to leave the country around the time of the fall of Saigon, April 29, 1975. 

Clean out the cosmo and enjoy shooting her!! 

[wineguy]

Thank you for the input...I'm starting to get a better picture of the rifle's heritage...amazing how much info you all have amassed!

[running-man]

If it's a mid-86 import, I'd suspect your import stamp is an early 'non-compliant' stamp that could have been obliterated.  Sometimes they are ridiculously lightly struck and hard to find if they are a true stamp.  It could have been a simple ink marking that has been cleaned off with solvent as well.  The font size is often minuscule and the early ones were not confined to the barreled receiver but could be anywhere from on the receiver cover itself to under the wood. 

Take a look at some of these:










All of these would be illegal by today's regs for one reason or another..   

[wineguy]

If it's a mid-86 import, I'd suspect your import stamp is an early 'non-compliant' stamp that could have been obliterated.  Sometimes they are ridiculously lightly struck and hard to find if they are a true stamp.  It could have been a simple ink marking that has been cleaned off with solvent as well.  The font size is often minuscule and the early ones were not confined to the barreled receiver but could be anywhere from on the receiver cover itself to under the wood. 


Certainly possible but after field stripping the entire rifle I went over it in detail and did not find any additional markings or signs that a marking was scrubbed.  Is there any specific area I should give extra scrutiny?