Stripper Clip Loading Drill? - Having Big Problem

[jjsharshaw]

First, after seeing a post from August trying to decide what board to post on - Military or Commercial. I am now confused but I'm going to go here first. My serial number is in the low 9 millions and accept for the missing 10 round non-detachable box mag which I ended up replacing with a 10 rounder I believe I paid extortion for at a gun show, all serial numbers match - stock, bolt and it seems like there's a third elsewhere. Anyway.

There are no Arsenal markings/proof marks. No Chinese characters. Says "Norinco" and "(something unreadable) VT" on the left side where the Arsenal mark and Chinese characters would be on a military issue BUT as far as I can tell, she could serve in the military. Except for the blonde stock, she's got a spike bayonet and everything looks by the book.

Prior to coming here, I assumed I have a pre ban import model because of the presence of the bayonet and the matching serials. So, apologies if I am in the wrong place. 

All that said, unless the Chinese modified the stripper clip loading architecture in the trigger group, I am really looking for anyone who may have some form of military manual as to how recruits were drilled to load the SKS.

There are close to a dozen videos (that I have found) dealing with how to load from a stripper clip. They all make it look unbearably easy. And my experience with Mauser strippers has been very easy.

What I am seeing in the videos - and it seems fairly obvious that all video makers have adopted a technique that works for them - is you stick the stripper clip in the guide with your strong hand (right) while holding the rifle in the finger grooves with the left. In the videos, the stippers literally seem to "stick" - the user takes their hand completely off the clip itself and using one of three general techniques, bada-bing, bada-boom, the 10 rounds load and the stripper stays stock still and in its place.

My problem is I stick it through the guide in the bolt carrier. MOST of the time it makes a solid stop. However the metal point it's stopping on is on the left side and seems to fit into a slot on the firing pin assembly. There is no corresponding stop on the right side of the firing pin assembly. Consequently, my clip, assuming it stays stuck on its stop, teeters to the right.

I have been wholly unsuccessful in loading via stripper clip using the three most prevalent methods I have seen on YouTube: 1) allegedly the "proper way" - thumb at base of top round touching the clip and using your index finger to raise the tip of the top round, push down with the thumb.  2) Just put your thumb on the base of the round where it meets the clip and push down and 3) put the rounds in the web of your hand (between thumb and index finger) and brute force them.

IF I hold the top of the clip with one hand, I can succeed (mostly) with any of the three previously described methods. But if I have to hold the clip I can load quicker via individual rounds.

(And BTW, if I do not hold the clip or exert pressure on it to keep it on the stop, it simply sinks into the magazine well - which would be fine if it were a Mauser but it ain't. Pull the clip out of the magazine and whatever rounds have successfully loaded will tell the bolt it's okie dokie to close! And then, oh, mama!)

I am not, as Forrest Gump would say, a smart man. I am less technically proficient with my hands. I farm all my ladies out to my former Marine son to clean and maintain (but I can, honest, do the work myself - taking about 3 hours more than he does but I digress). Still, and this is not in any way shape or form meant to be remotely racist, I figure if a young Soviet, Romanian, Yugoslav, Chinese, Vietnamese, or North Korean  conscript can do it (load and maintain his rifle) then by the Good Lord in Heaven, I - an old, fumble finger, moderately lazy, guy - should not be struggling!

I also realize that there will need to be some repetitious training in order to load and fire at speed. I have noticed a marked "sweet spot" for loading by individual round. Pressure on the base of the round, toward the back of the mag well. Too far forward and the round is just ever so slightly reluctant to go into the mag and then when the bolt is released maybe I chamber a round - mostly - but the following round is already out and trying to make it in, jamming the bolt. Using two hands with the clip, I notice it has to hit that "sweet spot" (and not counting "rough" commercial strippers not being exactly glass smooth in getting the rounds off) and if it does then there is not much more force required to strip 10 in than load indiviually.

So...where am I going wrong; doing wrong? Please!  Surely I am not the only one who has encountered this problem.

I have even gone to the (I am embarrassed to admit this) lengths of writing the Vietnamese Ambassador to Washington asking for one of their training drills/manuals - some historians have credited the SKS - and not the AK - with helping the NVA and VC beat us. (Why not write the Chinese? Well, I don't care much for their attitudes & actions of late. So, as I told the Vietnamese Ambassador, I figured I would ask an honored enemy who is now an ally (They're doing contract maintenace work on US Navy fleet ships at Cam Rahn Bay without Marine guards standing over them.) I don't expect any official response but I thought, what the heck. 

[Power Surge]

Going off the description of your rifle, it doesn't sound like you have a 1964 military 9 mil series gun. It sounds like you have a late build 90s dated gun, which would have a serial beginning with a 9, but nothing else except an import stamp.

As for the strippers, it's very easy to load them, IF you are using good ones. Good ones would be yugo or vz stripper clips. If you bought a pack of nc star or any other brand of strippers, they are your issue. Aftermarket strippers are very problematic and often result in very tight rounds that are hard to push down. Your clips should have nubs on the ends that bottom out on the bolt carrier so it only goes in so far. Then once the clip is in the gun, you just simply push the rounds down with your thumb. It's that easy.

If you want to use the gun before you get some quality strippers, you can load them down manually, or you can open the mag, turn the gun upside down, drop the rounds into the mag and then close the cover.

Hope this helps.

[running-man]

Hi JJ,

Think you can get some photos of these areas of the carbine??  Maybe a photo with and without an empty stripper installed to see exactly what you're taking about?



It almost sounds like the replacement magazine you got has some kind of issue with it.  I've never heard of a stripper going in so far that it releases the bolt hold open, that should never happen.  I have a few junky Chinese NCStar stripper clips that tend to go into the magazine farther than they should, but I typically press through it, get the rounds to all load and then have to manually pull the last 3/8" to 1/2" of the stripper back out, though I've never had rounds come back out with them.  The fact that your strippers seem to torque sideways left right w/o you holding on to them means something ain't quite right with the system - whether it's the strippers themselves, or the magazine, or even the groove in the bolt carrier, something is off.   We'll try and help get to the bottom of it. 

As for the gun itself, PS is likely right on with the gun being a post '88 blank build import.  Sounds like a CAI import stamp from your description.  These guns were scrubbed of all S/Ns and returned to good working condition, often fitted with new stocks and then exported to the US.  The first two numbers in the S/N will correspond to when the gun was refurbished ('88 through '94).  I would not concern yourself with the "preban" and "postban" aspect, there are only a few states where those terms still matter and I'd be surprised if Missouri is one of them.  If it had a bayo on it when you bought it, you're pretty much good to go in that regard. 

[running-man]

It's not a Chinese or VN manual, but here is the US Army manual from October 1969:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8Eq7Z0mPG-FYVQ4WlRPZzhTTTA/view?usp=sharing

Also there are a few on the web that are not 'official' manuals, but they go through some of the high points:
https://www.marstar.ca/html/reflibrary/Manuals/sks.html
http://stevespages.com/pdf/sks_instruction_manual.pdf

And then there are published works such as this translation of the original Soviet manual:
https://www.amazon.com/Official-SKS-Manual-U-S-S-R-Army-ebook/dp/B003AM78ZU
or the original Cyrillic version here:
http://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/18/133710.html

[jjsharshaw]

Thanks Power Surge and Running Man!

I think I can get a picture of two of the well on by tonight or tomorrow. In the photo on the left, featuring the firing pin/face, it looks like you have a whole lot more real estate for the clip to settle on than I do!

As for serial number on the left side is 9020594. It's shortened to 20594 on the stock and bolt carrier.  And I think I can make out a "CAI ST (or SP? - it didn't stamp well) ahead of the Norinco name.

I'd heard about NcStar strippers and others of similar build. But at the gun show that passed through town a month or so back, what I presumed were the good ones were running $2-$5 PER clip. So...I have 20 NcStars; calculated risk for the money. The springs at each end are good. Each end of each clip is square, i.e., they do not appear to be at an angle. They are a little rough or feel like they have burrs in the lips so initially the rounds took significant effort to get them off outside of the gun. LOL! But as I have practiced with each one, repeatedly, its like the movement of the rounds is smoothing the lips out. I've had none of the problems of them being too wide to fit in the guide.

Well, appreciate the assistance amd the welcome! I'll get some more info back out to you. 

Running Man, just saw your links! I'll take a look at them, thanks much!

[jjsharshaw]

Sorry for the delay in getting pics. Family matters. Then my eldest took her to "play with" for the day and had no luck either loading or seeing what's up. These first two photos are from him with notations.





He didn't see anything wrong. Of note, which will show on the next few pics, is that when I insert the clip through the guide (looking from back of the chamber foward) there is a "clip stop" on the left but nothing on the right. Consequently, the clip tends to "wobble" or pitch side to side. Only when the clip is held solidly by hand is it stable. But Running Man, your photos pretty much look like mine.

Anyway...This is a view down through the clip guide:



The Bolt or firing pin face:



This is the empty clip on its "stop":



And this is with an empty clip that overshot the "stop":



I have a few more - I'll post if you want them - but this is essentially it. My son and I agree that there doesn't appear to be anything amiss so we're baffled.

IF I exert forward pressure on back of the clip and push down sometimes I can load almost all. Still, I'm using two hands to do it. I'm started to feel real dumm (intentional misspelling - dumb)

The clips are NCStar and they do have "burrs" on the inner lips but a few test tries at loading wears them down.

So any help with this great mystery would be appreciated.    Soooo glad I did not immediately invest in a PLA chest rig for the clips as I may end up loading individually.

Thanks! 

[Greasemonkey]

I'll call out the NCStar clips.... all I've ever found them good for,  is photo shoots.. or looking cool in the box-a-bullets.

Before ripping and tearing, filing, sanding or replacing this or that and popping a brain vessel in general, I would suggest you go on FleaBay or some surplus place and score you some Yugoslavian or Czech BXN marked stripper clips, just 1 or 2 would work for a "problem elimination test", even an older Chinese stripper from when Chinese ammo was imported would work, these will typically have a factory stamp on them. Keep it simple, it's the cheapest easiest quickest way to see before things get out of hand, because they work 99% of the times in every SKS I've seen including the Vz52/57 and the Vz58.

Commercial strippers in my experience don't seem to have the same quality as surplus and they can be hit or miss in working or partially work 3 or 4 times then become totally unreliable. I've found this true on many types of stripper clip loaded weapons, from Mausers, MAS's, Hakims, to Mosins, Enfields and a SVT. I have been beaten on the same half a dozen of Yugo strippers for several years, they start to get sticky, a 'lil drop of oil and they work slicker than snail snot again. I have used these same strippers to fill a Vz58 30 round mag, that 3rd stripper can be a little trying, but it works, so shovin 10 in an SKS should be a cake walk.

[jjsharshaw]

I can, at times, be a cast iron, stubborn S*B. I can't see WHY the NC's won't work - aside from the burrs in the inner lips that make it clunky to get the rounds off - but I don't understand why they can be inserted in the guide, like in all the videos I've seen, and not "stick" so to speak. But, I am also pragmatic and somewhat scientifically logical, so your test sounds...uh, sound. I'll see what I can find and IF I find a couple, will let you know the results.

Thanks 

[Greasemonkey]

Like I said.....build quality. I have Commercial Mosin strippers that feel like a origami folded bubblegum wrapper and flimsy, while an original Soviet stripper seems twice as thick and much stiffer and fits right. I've noticed the same with SKS strippers, commercials either fit loosely, too tight, wont fit at all, while a military grade one fits pretty snug and works.

Remember, the military ones have to work, quite possibly inspected during manufacture for fitment, etc. It's a kind of critical component or what good do they do the troops in the field who are defending your country...
Commercial ones are just that, if it looks like a stripper and somewhat functions, sell it, if 1 in 10 don't work but one time, and 4 outta 10 work some of the time, oh well, sorry bout your luck, no takesy backsies, read the fine print or here, we will swap it for one that has a 65.4% chance of working.

[jjsharshaw]

The hunt for milsurp strippers is in full swing. Got a gun show coming to my area. The last through had some rather beat up looking ones for $2 a piece. I assume, in hindsight, they were milsurp. At any rate, I am looking! Lol! Thanks!

[carls sks]

I bought some milsurp  BXN65 on eBay. look never used. 

[bbush44]

The hunt for milsurp strippers is in full swing. Got a gun show coming to my area. The last through had some rather beat up looking ones for $2 a piece. I assume, in hindsight, they were milsurp. At any rate, I am looking! Lol! Thanks!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-SKS-Sks-10rd-Stripper-Clips-Czech-BXNs-Excellent-/371755011126?hash=item568e534c36:g:ptkAAMXQWzNSiuyB

[Phosphorus32]

...or if you need some good ammo to go with 20 good stripper clips

http://www.sgammo.com/product/surplus/200-round-pack-762x39-m67-non-magnetic-copper-fmj-brass-case-corrosive-yugo-surplus-

[carls sks]

looks good, might have to get some. 

[montigre]

looks good, might have to get some. 

That's what I did just to stock up on some strippers, then purchased the rest of the ammo I needed in bulk for the savings.