Midwest Ordnance AK mag conversions

[XXXSKS]

When I started searching these back issues of Shotgun News my goal was to find two specific ads the N.A. Assault Carbine Type 84 and the infamous Midwest Ordnance ad. The Assault Carbine is from 1984 and the MO rifles were before that. RIGHT? I searched through all of 84, 85 with no sign of either.  1986 and 87 nada. In 1988 the Detachable ads started showing up and I forgot all about those two. See the other thread for the N.A. Assault Carbine Type 84. Would you believe I had to go all the way to 1991 to find this ad. So far three full page ads from FEB 1, 1991 to MAY 1, 1991. There are one aspect of the urban legend full of holes. They could not have shown the Chinese how to do it after the BATF told the to stop. This is 1991 folks the Detachable 20' got here from China in 1988. The Chinese education had to be prior to 1988 which is possible.



Vics business card.











This rifle received the works treatment.


....................................Joe

[Power Surge]

This ad seems to show MO claiming theirs to be the "original SKS-D". To me, that tells us two things... 1- the 88 D was actually called a D. Otherwise why would MO make that distinction. 2- for MO to make a defensive statement claiming they had the "original" D, they must have made them before the Chinese. I'm thinking there has to be more to this story...

[firstchoice]

The reference to the "closest duplication available of the original Chinese SKS-30." is very interesting! That seems to reference the names on the Beta Arms imported SKS-D's with the small "SKS-30" designation on the box tags. I believe Power Surge had posted a pic of that tag in another thread somewhere. I have a tag on one of my two NIB Beta Arms D's with that same tag. The second box is simply missing the tag. Could this be the real name of the D? Was the D-designation given to the AK magazine conversion by Midwest Ordnance? Why 1991? Is my mind melting with all these new revelations?  

firstchoice

[Power Surge]

The reference to the "closest duplication available of the original Chinese SKS-30." is very interesting! That seems to reference the names on the Beta Arms imported SKS-D's with the small "SKS-30" designation on the box tags. I believe Power Surge had posted a pic of that tag in another thread somewhere. I have a tag on one of my two NIB Beta Arms D's with that same tag. The second box is simply missing the tag. Could this be the real name of the D? Was the D-designation given to the AK magazine conversion by Midwest Ordnance? Why 1991? Is my mind melting with all these new revelations?  

firstchoice

Holy crap, I totally missed that in that ad! So that backs up my theory that the real designation for the D is the SKS-30

It sounds to me, like Midwest Ordinance called their model the D, which was basically a copy of the SKS-30. And at some point in time, everyone probably just started calling them Ds since they were so similar!

[XXXSKS]

This ad seems to show MO claiming theirs to be the "original SKS-D". To me, that tells us two things... 1- the 88 D was actually called a D. Otherwise why would MO make that distinction. 2- for MO to make a defensive statement claiming they had the "original" D, they must have made them before the Chinese. I'm thinking there has to be more to this story...

OK here is what I have come up with so far. From late 87 through All of 88 and 89 all importers and dealers called this rifle the "SKS WITH DETACHABLE MAG or MAGAZINE". They did not use the letter "D". Maybe i am splitting hairs here. But the first use of the letter "D" is in the MO ads.

If the urban legend is true and they taught they Chinese how to do this conversion. This education happened before 1988. How much time did it take the Chinese to design, tool and produce a new rifle in the 80 's. 6 months, a year, 2 years. This meeting of the minds had to have happened in 1986 or 87 for the legend to be true. Do you agree.

...................Joe

[padams8888]

Not helpful to the investigation,  but that ad shows a 16 inch barreled version of the conversion as well?? Has anyone ever seen one?

[Power Surge]

This ad seems to show MO claiming theirs to be the "original SKS-D". To me, that tells us two things... 1- the 88 D was actually called a D. Otherwise why would MO make that distinction. 2- for MO to make a defensive statement claiming they had the "original" D, they must have made them before the Chinese. I'm thinking there has to be more to this story...

OK here is what I have come up with so far. From late 87 through All of 88 and 89 all importers and dealers called this rifle the "SKS WITH DETACHABLE MAG or MAGAZINE". They did not use the letter "D". Maybe i am splitting hairs here. But the first use of the letter "D" is in the MO ads.

If the urban legend is true and they taught they Chinese how to do this conversion. This education happened before 1988. How much time did it take the Chinese to design, tool and produce a new rifle in the 80 's. 6 months, a year, 2 years. This meeting of the minds had to have happened in 1986 or 87 for the legend to be true. Do you agree.

8)...................Joe

It really doesn't seem like that legend is true. If MO taught the chinese to do these conversions, we must be missing all the advertising from before 91. Like you said...the teaching would have been before 88.... so we are missing 5 years of evidence that MO made them before 91. It should also be noted that the MO ad is showing a conversion service....not selling actual finished rifles. That's not to say they didn't, but there weren't in this particular ad so who knows.

I also don't see why the Chinese would have needed someone else to show them how to make an ak mag sks.

[XXXSKS]

The reference to the "closest duplication available of the original Chinese SKS-30." is very interesting! That seems to reference the names on the Beta Arms imported SKS-D's with the small "SKS-30" designation on the box tags. I believe Power Surge had posted a pic of that tag in another thread somewhere. I have a tag on one of my two NIB Beta Arms D's with that same tag. The second box is simply missing the tag. Could this be the real name of the D? Was the D-designation given to the AK magazine conversion by Midwest Ordnance? Why 1991? Is my mind melting with all these new revelations?  

firstchoice

I was wondering if somebody was goig to catch that.

Something happened in 1990. We received more Detachable 20" rifles. Could these be the rifles detained at port by the BATF or was this just a new shipment. The price of these rifles jump from $180 to $280 and the designation SKS-30 is seen in a several ads.

I am working on a time line. You guys are getting ahead of me. There is so much info hereI could write a book.

..............Joe

[XXXSKS]

Not helpful to the investigation,  but that ad shows a 16 inch barreled version of the conversion as well?? Has anyone ever seen one?

Yes. Photograph added to original post. I didn't know what to think of this rifle when I first saw it. I too didn't know they shortened barrels or did the drum mod until I saw the ad.

.......................Joe

[padams8888]

This was one of the first sks's I owned......Remember this one Joe??

[firstchoice]

  This "service" seems to introduce a new, at least to me, approach to MO rifles found on the market now. Were they original SKS converted and sold by MO? Or are they standard SKS supplied to MO, for whatever modifications the customer wanted/paid for? Were there ever any "as-issued" guns bought, modified, and resold completely under the MO brand? (And sold as the SKS-D?) Or, are these MO guns all customer reworks? Interesting Joe!

  Just took a couple pics of the tag on the box of one of my D's. I know now why only one of the boxes still has the tag on it. The packing tape from the importer runs right across the tag. The tape is missing from the other D box. I guess the tag went with the tape, at that time.





firstchoice