Buyer beware

[running-man]

Well be cautious at least

I ran into this gun from April's GB listings:





Wow, that's a pretty gun!  The stock looked off, but it was a nice deep red with lots of grain showing.  Anyhow, I decided to archive it and lo and behold, I already had it in my files:

Then:



Now:



Sometimes it's hard to tell a humped gun, sometimes it's easy.  This one fooled me.  It bothered me, but I couldn't quite put my thumb on it until I saw the archived photos.  The shiny coat (poly?) really should have been my first clue.  This stock has had a very *heavy* sanding and a total refinish.  They were able to take out much of the scratches and divots, but the really deep ones still remain.  Anyhow, I thought it would be a good thing to post to show a verifiably humped gun and maybe point out what to look for when you see a "nice" one in an auction that you can't physically handle. 

Notice how rounded the edges of the stock got right under the receiver S/N?  Also notice how you can barely even read the stock S/N anymore (0 and 9 especially) and how darkly filled in the remnant parts actually are.  These stocks were stamped after they were finished, there should be no pools of finish at the bottom of any stampings.  One final thing is that this gun is a 7 mil /26\, they simply did not come in this deep a red color in that year.  Any early /26\ with the 'original finish' that looks like this should throw up a big red flag if you're on your game. 

This gun sold for almost $500.00 and I suspect the buyer simply didn't realize what they've truly got until they got it in their hands (and even then perhaps still doesn't).

P.S.  I'm absolutely not saying that either of the sellers did anything wrong or that there was any intent to deceive by any party at all.  The recent seller appears to have gotten this gun as a trade in to their shop and (rightly) took detailed photos of the very nice looking wood.

[Loose}{Cannon]

Geez....  You make it sound like a crime has been committed.   


Yeah, its a pretty obvious refinsh on that one.  The real issue I have, is that you recognized the gun after looking at how many?   Your an animal.

[running-man]

Laugh, no crime.  But that one darn near fooled me I'm sorry to say.    I knew it was off, I knew it!!  I just couldn't put my thumb on exactly what.  It's obvious now that I've looked at it a good long while, but it just shows that it pays to be diligent when buying a gun based on only a few photos online.

[Phosphorus32]

Holy smokes. Sharp eyes RM  Thanks for the point by point analysis.

[firstchoice]

  It's a bit of a quandary, a dilemma that I can't quite settle one way or another with my own opinion. I see these humped guns, some very lightly worked, and some like the one above. And it's all up to the owner, I realize that. But, more and more, I see these guns going for much more than what the going rates are, or should be by the "standards" we're trying to get an idea what is or should be "normal" prices. I'm sure that most of the high dollar sales on humped guns is due to unaware sellers. Just like the Alby that sold for $825.00 this past month on GB. Truth be told, I lean towards the dreaded "purist" label. But crap, this trend is unsettling. Carefully refinish a stock and make an extra 2 benjamin's? Too many "as-issued" nice guns are being reworked, never to be the same again. I'd love to see some of my original stocks with pristine finishes on them, especially the ones with great grain patterns. But I just can't do it, even for the extra cash.

  I really don't understand the complete refinishing of the "Sino-Banian" stocks that some have done. Buy a rifle for the "battle-tested, been there, done that" look, and then tear it all off and refinish it. Why not just put another stock on it and save the original? Ah well, to each their own, I suppose.

  Yeah, RM, you've looked at probably, what, a couple hundred carbines now?      Probably feels more like a couple million, eh?  Good catch though! You must have a heck of a cache of pics by now!

firstchoice

[Loose}{Cannon]

I refinished a few sinobanians, but in my defense they were U-Fix-Ems that were basically snapped in half. 

[firstchoice]

  No, not the u-fix-ems. These are basically ones that I saw on another board planet. Guys that would buy the $329.00 /26\ rifles and cook the matching stocks in the oven until they resembled balsa wood, cover them with red/green/whatever varnish and then ask how much they were worth "now".  I've had a couple stocks that were so bad that I didn't want to use them. And I saw the condition of some of the u-fix-ems that you're speaking of. No issue there.

  My bone always kicks in  and I can't bring myself to alter even the bubba'd stocks.

  Case in point: I bought a KSI imported /156\ with the "West Coast Rail" on it. It came through the door with a Soviet-style scope mount and decent scope, all mounted on it. Initially, it looked good. The young guy offered it to me at a "killer" price and I bought it, laid it down and went back to the show sales. After a while, I flipped the thumb clamp of the scope mount and found that the guy had apparently used an AK scope mount, found out that that wouldn't quite fit, and as best as I can figure, used a screwdriver to "make it work".

  It wasn't a bad looking Type 56...



  And then bubba decided to mount a scope.

  On an all-matching gun and stock...

  I don't know how I found it, but another identical stock with the serial number 11445 came up for sale and I bought it. Same star in front of the SN, exact same color of finish. I kept the old stock and put the "new" one on. I'd like to find a wood smith that could repair the original stock but I don't want to have it hacked. Even with the "West Coast Rail", (which I found a scope mount that will fit on that rail), I think it's worth preserving.

  But that's my "purist" side. And that does bug some folks.

firstchoice