1TRZ Stamp On M59s

[Loose}{Cannon]

What do we actually know about this stamp?  All I have ever heard is its a 'refurb' stamp.

What does it stand for?
Where was it done?
If a rifle has a matching stock but NO 1TRZ, does that mean non-furb?
Has anyone ever seen this on a 59/66?

Discuss.

[Greasemonkey]

This is just some stuff I had saved and kinda tucked away ....maybe I will try to dig up more later this evening
1.TRZ
1 Tehnicki Remontni Zavod
"1" stands for Cacak, Serbia
"TRZ" translates to "technical repair facility"

Now...I have seen this as well,
In spite of the name sounding like a shop dedicated to general rework, this stamp only appears on "wood stocks" and is generally believed to be what they specialized in.

1.TRZ is the oldest known, or at least identified, operating Yugoslav arms repair workshop.  They were started in 1944 and known to still be in operation as late as 2005. It is generally believed they were predominantly concerned with stock making/repair since their stamp only appears on wood whereas every other shop concerned with rifle repair stamped into the metal and the TRC stamp can be found on rifles from various other workshops.

There is also a known TRZ-5 stamp, which is fairly rare, it's more seen on Mausers, it represents the individual facility in Hadicizi in present day Bosnia, just outside Sarajevo. TRZ-5 had a small output of rifles and I have read that the stamped TRZ-5 is much rarer than the script version having been done early in 1946.

Then there is......
Weapons marked TRZ 69 were made/reworked at Cacak north of Belgrade.
Weapons marked TRZ 136 were made/reworked at Tivat.
All of the TRZs (which date back decades) reworked small arms, even though their main manufacturing specialities differed. Handzici mostly made/repaired farm and construction machinery, Cacak mostly made/repaired aircraft and aircraft-related parts, Tivat built and refitted merchant vessels and warships.
Now....Radionica 124 and Radionica 145 letter marks have been seen on postwar Mauser stocks as well.

TRZ.1 mark, the most common one, is seen on all types of Mausers, M24, Vz24, M24/47, M48, M48A, M48B, M48BO, M24/52c, M53 MGs, German K98 capture Mod 98/48, StG-44s, MG-34s and MG-42s, PPSH, Mosin M91/30, M44, Mosin Sniper M91/30, SKSs, even post war US supplied Thompsons.....but again, stamp is only on the wood.

I have yet to dig far enough to find who makes the wood or redid "if it was ever done", the M64, M70, N-PAP, O-PAP, M76 style Aks. Far as I can tell, Zavodi Crvena Zastava/Red Banner Works does the stocks on their modern commercial bolt actions, typically it's a walnut type wood.

[Direct Connection]

Great question LC. For me , it seems like the more I ask about it the more confused I get. For instance . Read the first comment on this post in the link below.

So I have a M59 with no 1TRZ on the stock and its called a referb because 1/8 of an inch was sanded of the stock and the wood is flush with the cross screw below the HG ? Cammon . Thats alot of sawdust ! and replacement parts with part numbers and no ep means referb ?.. I give up.. So many people have so many different answers so I just simply give up. Great info GM GM posted and maybe my 1TRZ was sanded off lol but if your stock doesnt have a TRZ it doesnt mean it hasent been referbed according to some sources.. It goes on and on and on and on and now ill take two asprin.     
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?582561-Yugo-M59-s-from-Dans-Ammo-recent-batch

[montigre]

I have a non-refurbed M59 without the TRZ marking, but my Yugo captured German 98K mauser does have 1.TRZ stamped on a new laminated stock and Radionica 145 stamped on the receiver (not on stock).  Seems to be no rhyme or reason yet...

Thanks for pulling that out of your memory, GM. To add a little to your write up:
Tehnički remontni zavod (Technical Overhaul Institute)-- An institution of the Army of Serbia whose main activity is technical maintenance and general overhaul of armament and military equipment, including the appropriate associated systems, aggregates and devices.

History of 1.TRZ, Čačak, Serbia from their website: http://www.trzcacak.rs/

1925 - Prva naredba o formiranju--Initially formed
1941 do 1944 - Logor--Camp
1944 - Radionica za pomoć frontu i stanovništvu--Workshop to aid front and households
1947 - Preduzeće za opravku alatnih mašina--Company for repair of machine tools
1948 -"Boba Miletić" (današnji FRA, Cer i TRZ)--"? "  (Today's FRA, CER, and TRZ)
1953 - Budžetska ustanova--Budgetary institution
1973 - Dohodovna ustanova--Income Foundation

This is what TRZ Čačak does today:

[Greasemonkey]

Just give me a bit... I have something that may be saucy....    Something I noticed, but will need more confirmation now that more Yugos are present, ya'll really need to buy more Yugos.. In a bit though.. I'm in the middle of bushhoggin listening to Katy, Rihanna and Waylon, with a hint of the Styx    

[Direct Connection]

Just give me a bit... I have something that may be saucy....    Something I noticed, but will need more confirmation now that more Yugos are present, ya'll really need to buy more Yugos.. In a bit though.. I'm in the middle of bushhoggin listening to Katy, Rihanna and Waylon, with a hint of the Styx    

Oh Boy ! Sounds like a Grand Illusion and we'll have to pay the price get our tickets for the show ! 

[Greasemonkey]

Oh Boy ! Sounds like a Grand Illusion and we'll have to pay the price get our tickets for the show ! 

Jimmy didn't rattle your chain or kick your cage...sounds like CD got To much time on his hands cause he Wants to Sail Away with Mr Roboto and become a Renagade and learn how to Roar, then ask if Im sure Hank did it this way riding on his Dark Horse named S&M with his trusty side kick RudeBoy from Luckenbach, Texas  

Now....... can I finish bushoggin please I will get there..

[Greasemonkey]

Ok...enough bush hogging.

I know it's trivial...but I wanna know what yours has... flat or rounded crossbolt and nuts, TRZ.1 or nothing. I've seen M59s with both, mine have both, LB's "could" have both, M59/66, M59/66a1s seem to be flat on both bolt head and nut. 

This is what and why I needed verification, and for ya'll to buy more Yugos, Yugoslavia used two types, if data goes one way, one could say M59/66 are both flat, M59s are round, but random M59s with newish stocks are flat, then possibly later restocking was done to them, also, it might show where the flat/round change came in at, or who knows, maybe nothing, but we gotta start somewhere, right.

So if you got a Yugo, what type of crossbolt and nut does it got, does it have a TRZ.1 stamp or not. Now, go fondle your Yugo, or Yugo's, I'm sure you don't mind, and peak at it's bits and lets see where this goes...


And before you say it.....all of these shots are from my M59s, the M59/66 was not disturbed for this photo shoot.

A flat crossbolt nut



Or a rounded crossbolt nut.



Flat headed crossbolt


Round headed crossbolt

[montigre]

And here I thought we were gettin somthin after all that bushwackin.... 

Okay, I'll bite..

M59.......Rounded cross bolt with rounded nut; 1.TRZ on stock

59/66.....Flat cross bolt with flat nut; no TRZ on stock--unissued per log

[Loose}{Cannon]

M59 Rounded, With 1TRZ
M59 LongBarrel Rounded, NO 1TRZ
59/66 Flat...  obviously no 1TRZ

Interesting observation GM....  I like where this may lead.

[Greasemonkey]

And here I thought we were gettin somthin after all that bushwackin.... 

What, you expecting a ground shattering definitive answer on a silver platter      But, one can not deny, they are different I'm just curious to see if there is correlation between the two, will it go anywhere, maybe, maybe not, who knows, but never hurts to see.

Besides, we can discuss TRZ.1 stamps till were blue in the face, been done before on a dozen other boards I'm sure.

RM collects numbers, xxxSKS and PS collect commercial, Carbine collects Russians, I'm a pretty simple minded fella, I'll just collect nuts and bolts

[Direct Connection]

Ok heres mine.  All Yugo M59's .. Thank God Ca, wont let me have a 59/66 I feel so lucky living here. For once

38877  Samco   round screw -  flat nut-     yes 1trz
44801  Samco    flat screw   -   round nut - yes 1trz
38670  Dans      flat  screw       round nut    NO 1trz
43688  Dans       flat screw        round nut   Yes Trz
49786  local       Flat screw         Flat nut      NO 1trz

Yes I checked and double checked... And no I don't have any extra nuts and bolts laying around so don't ask 

[padams8888]

43202: M59 Spotter rifle stock, no TRZ. Round bolt, flat nut.

[montigre]

Okay, if all of these 59 series SKSs are coming out of Zastava, why would there be 2 different types of cross bolt bolts and nuts used in the first place?  The stock lengths are the same on the 59 and 59/66 and the bolts are located in the same location on both.  Inquiring minds want to know

[rwhite135]

Okay, if all of these 59 series SKSs are coming out of Zastava, why would there be 2 different types of cross bolt bolts and nuts used in the first place?  The stock lengths are the same on the 59 and 59/66 and the bolts are located in the same location on both.  Inquiring minds want to know

Considering all the weirdness out of China, just having differing crossbolts is refreshing. 

[Loose}{Cannon]

Okay, if all of these 59 series SKSs are coming out of Zastava, why would there be 2 different types of cross bolt bolts and nuts used in the first place?  The stock lengths are the same on the 59 and 59/66 and the bolts are located in the same location on both.  Inquiring minds want to know

My guess....

1) has nothing to do with a famine.
2) they changed at some point in time which can possibly be proven with enough data.
3) they had multiple suppliers for the cross bolts and are a mix throughout production. Which can also possibly be proven with enough data.

[Greasemonkey]

I can't exactly give an answer on the stocks quite yet...but, I do have a possible theory on the crossbolt/nut design.

What is the one nation who used and built SKSs, and also manufactured Mausers?
Russia dealt with captures, Romania they were Czech built and captures, Albania used what ever their allies supplied them with or found, China had the Chiang Kai-shek Mauser/Jiang Jieshi rifle, but that was well before the SKS, they made a Mosin in between, so the rounded bolt and nut followed suit, like Russia...  Every other nations SKS has rounded crossbolts and nuts I've seen, with the exception of ONE, 1,  East German marked rifle, it's the only other I have seen with a flat nut, the bolt was round, the rest of the East Germans I've seen were round. You will see some close to flat, but it still has a radius to it, it's not like the Yugoslavian, just plain flat.

Also....if you look the Mosin crossbolt/nut is round, again, Russia, Romania, China, Albania all used Mosins, Yugoslavia did as well, but not as much as everyone else, they refurb'ed them, a TRZ.1 stamped M91/30 or M44 are out there. Yugoslavia's loyalty went to the Mauser, not the Mosin.

Yugoslavia had them in masses and made new ones at least into the very early 60's. Why did they start with the round design and change, why did the Czechs not make an SKS or Ak.. maybe it was ease of manufacture, maybe they knew how to do them easier and faster than the rounded nut and bolt, maybe their local nut and bolt factory said screw this round crap, we will do them flat, like the Mauser, after all they had been making them since M1924 days, maybe before.




Like I said it's just another theory, It had nothing to do with Famine... I think it's a carry over from Yugoslavian Mausers....but, I may be way off base.

[montigre]

1) has nothing to do with a famine.

Had to get that in there---well played!! 

[rwhite135]

1) has nothing to do with a famine.

Had to get that in there---well played!! 

...but, but, but famine? It's gots to be famine!