Last week I saw an ad for a 1949 SKS. Price was a lot higher than normal, but I asked for pictures. Ad was up for 9 hours before I received the pictures and I was told that there were other interested persons. But first I will take it, proper validation and payment would get the rifle. There were 2 pictures that made me very interested. If you remember my post about Sean's 1949 SKS - "An interesting 1949 SKS" you will see why. Received rifle today and will take pictures Tuesday or Wednesday. I will say that although one of the prefix letters is different from Sean's, they could be twins. Here are the 2 of 11 pictures sent to me that sealed the deal.
(https://i.ibb.co/84tVHh7/Tula4910-35.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pr5pSmL)
(https://i.ibb.co/0Mrm4Lg/Tula4914-47.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qsp7q8t)
free image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)
Nice pick up, PAX
Early features that I have on this SKS.
1. Equal cleaning rod nubs.
2. No rivet on magazine.
3. Clawed trap door for cleaning kit.
4. Stock modified for clawed trap door.
5. Op rod beveled on 2 sides.
6. Front sling mount thicker - 4.98mm
7. No knurls on safety lever and magazine release.
8. Rear sling mount. I did not notice this till later and added it to this list.
Pictures to follow.
Nice! Looking forward to more pictures!
I did not notice the rear mount changes. Outside measurement on the first one is from this SKS(11.93mm), second one is from my early 49 SKS(13.35mm) that has some of the early features and third is from another early 49. Inside gap on top one is 6.11mm and second is 7.63mm. Diameter of the rod used in the top 2 are 2.9mm and on the 3rd is 3.5mm. Base thickness - top -2.54mm, middle - 2.60mm and bottom - 4.01mm.
(https://i.ibb.co/VT5WQ4Y/IMG-5594.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RcdpBwT)
(https://i.ibb.co/1zsjBZp/IMG-5595.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dmbxXB3)
(https://i.ibb.co/VJrrnt5/IMG-5597.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vVggyHR)
Quote from: jstin2 on December 09, 2024, 10:23:13 PM
I did not notice the rear mount changes. Outside measurement on the first one is from this SKS(11.93mm), second one is from my early 49 SKS(13.35mm) that has some of the early features and third is from another early 49. Inside gap on top one is 6.11mm and second is 7.63mm.
(https://i.ibb.co/VT5WQ4Y/IMG-5594.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RcdpBwT)
(https://i.ibb.co/1zsjBZp/IMG-5595.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dmbxXB3)
(https://i.ibb.co/VJrrnt5/IMG-5597.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vVggyHR)
Now *that* is interesting! They must have had issues threading the slings with the narrower designs and decided to open things up to the swivel that eventually became standard.
Very neat carbine jstin. thumb1
Heck just seeing that bottom pin on the stock ferrule would have gotten me excited enough to kick in a premium over any other typical '49. Looks like a *very* early one indeed. Looking forward to the full spread.
Here are some pictures of the stock.
(https://i.ibb.co/VYp02gz/IMG-5568.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b5RjzsC)
(https://i.ibb.co/zFJJcBJ/IMG-5570.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qC55Gc5)
(https://i.ibb.co/vQH0Kzf/IMG-5571.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xfDxR5w)
(https://i.ibb.co/6nGyTbk/IMG-5573.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cgRyZtj)
(https://i.ibb.co/6bTGzJw/IMG-5577.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bLCYTRm)
(https://i.ibb.co/KsT7pX5/IMG-5579.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SmF04P6)
(https://i.ibb.co/crmRBtw/IMG-5583.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yQ3K95p)
(https://i.ibb.co/tM8V1BS/IMG-5713.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PZwqVxR)
When I removed the butt plate to check the trap door, it stayed straight. Thought that it might be rusted. Soaked it in penetrating oil for a few hours. Slowly tried to bend it and then a piece of dried cosmoline dropped off the spring. Spring looks in good condition.
(https://i.ibb.co/Wsz0MQ4/IMG-5606.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Bw6GQm5)
Finished with the album. I noticed that the 1's on all the metal serial numbers are serif.
https://ibb.co/album/vVPgDs
Quote from: jstin2 on December 11, 2024, 02:13:22 PM
Finished with the album. I noticed that the 1's on all the metal serial numbers are serif.
https://ibb.co/album/vVPgDs
Extraordinary ’49! Congratulations! 8) thumb1
I have a question about applying something to the stock to prevent any further drying and chipping or to leave it alone. From a distance, stock looks good, but up close you can see it differently.
(https://i.ibb.co/gwd5Xqq/IMG-5766.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k0JRrbb)
(https://i.ibb.co/tsyGv71/IMG-5769.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C7xcYkS)
(https://i.ibb.co/pXHd90F/IMG-5772.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cTWQ7gn)
(https://i.ibb.co/bmcQFRD/IMG-5786.jpg) (https://ibb.co/54bGkxw)
Some guys apply mineral oil to the stocks to treat and stabilize them. I'm personally of the camp that if it's not falling apart, I don't touch it (true for a true collectible like this, my mismatched shooter Sino-Banian is quite a different story however!)
I had thought that the stock had a crack in it, but the lines were too straight. Then I thought stock repair and was glad that stock wasn't replaced. Boris Badinov mentioned that a toe splice is a common feature on original stocks. What amazed me is the fact that there is a vee cut feature which I think was for strength. Plus with the screw hole being close, it also could cause a fracture. I brushed the stock end so you can see wood grain and splitting plus direction of the joints.
(https://i.ibb.co/10v57v4/IMG-5890.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Mg24Z2J)
(https://i.ibb.co/LSP402Z/IMG-5894.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5T9q1fR)
(https://i.ibb.co/44GLdVN/IMG-5901.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P1nyQ6C)
interesting, nice gun...the rear mount for the sling is new never seen this, neat!
Here is a better picture of the differences.
(https://i.ibb.co/CPVksWG/IMG-5838.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MBPY590)
I noticed one other item that makes this rifle different from others. It has no Barrel/Receiver index number.
(https://i.ibb.co/sKbNvP8/IMG-5991.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y6dZnRH)
(https://i.ibb.co/0JsNKq8/IMG-5997.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BsnDGLd)
Very interesting Jstin!! thumb1
No evidence at all of buffing either. Lathe marks are unmolested on the barrel lug, and the edges the receiver are still sharp. I wonder how they clocked barrel-to-receiver threading?
Very interesting.
I took some pictures yesterday and made up an album this morning. It raises the question of when barrel/receiver index numbers started. Pictures are from my 1949 SKS's.
https://ibb.co/album/TrZS9x
I wonder if the discontinuity in the index mark is actually an index mark as well as the numeral 1? The other numeral 1's of the match #'s on the receiver rounds in your examples are quite crudely stamped, and the barrel match # markings are extremely difficult to spot if they exist at all.
It might be that they didn't formalize location of the match numbers on both barrel and receiver until sometime after all these '49's you show were produced.
Makes me curious, I've never thought that this would be a transitioning feature, but it's clearly in a different location than is seen in later carbines...
Figured I'd look through my files.
All the '49s I have with the match # all showing on the receiver round and limited readability (if there at all) of the match # on the barrel. (not terribly many, most people don't take photos of the left lug area with the stock off, but still it's consistent with jstin's observations)
AB2000:
(https://i.ibb.co/K6mVh1B/AB2000-receiver.jpg)
EM972:
(https://i.ibb.co/K0T9Dxv/EM972-receiver.jpg)
PЮ413
(https://i.ibb.co/d672DW4/P-413-receiver.jpg)
Among 1950's I see a definite transition:
ЛЯ1591 with the same style on the receiver round as the '49's. I can't make out a barrel match # on this one, but the lighting may be too poor to resolve it:
(https://i.ibb.co/h87ZwK8/1591-left-lug.jpg)
УH2618 with different numbers in *both* locations, in this case an original 3 with a matching 3 on the barrel, and a presumably newer 29 in the traditional spot on the lower left of the receiver flat with a corresponding 29 barrel match number:
(https://i.ibb.co/SVDFRfw/H2618-left-lug.jpg)
ФK2584 with a single set of match numbers in the places consistent with later produced carbines (receiver flat and barrel lug):
(https://i.ibb.co/n7wCcz6/K2584-left-lug.jpg)
I had not noticed this before... thumb1
My transitional 1950 has the same markings as RM describes in his examples.
(https://i.ibb.co/y51pqwT/IMG-5424.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0ZSKrgN)
My 1949 has two timing marks struck on the receiver interestingly. Idk what to make of that but it’s interesting.
(https://i.ibb.co/sgbN6Jc/IMG-5425.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4FKXYgC)
Very neat CZ!
You think that extra timing Mark could be the '1' of a 13? Looks like they were a bit sloppy with those stamps in these early carbines.
The last 2 pictures in the album had the index marking "2".
(https://i.ibb.co/2K6h2wP/IMG-6025.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kcyBnp0)
(https://i.ibb.co/yVyqN7Z/IMG-6031.jpg) (https://ibb.co/stwqgzN)
Quote from: running-man on January 02, 2025, 06:53:03 PM
Very neat CZ!
You think that extra timing Mark could be the '1' of a 13? Looks like they were a bit sloppy with those stamps in these early carbines.
(https://i.ibb.co/kD3fKVm/IMG-5449.jpg) (https://ibb.co/X5ygXfY)
Personally I don’t think so but I’ll let others judge for themselves
(https://i.ibb.co/Hqy56D8/IMG-5450.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QMVyLFw)
My opinion is that the 3 is engraved and not stamped.
Is that typical in your experience?
For an answer to that question, you need to ask the SKS gurus on this site.
Quote from: jstin2 on January 06, 2025, 04:17:26 PM
For an answer to that question, you need to ask the SKS gurus on this site.
You are the guru on some of these early gun features 99% of the community has never even seen, like it or not jstin! chuckles1
The 3 does look like an engraved feature, however. Very interesting on the lower part of the 3. Now is that a corrosion artifact that enhanced the effect or was it truly engraved?
Sorry SKSguy, I had CZ on the brain and misnamed you.
I honestly have no idea what that mark really would be. For a timing mark to be off by 10° like that...let me just say I've never seen one that wasn't within a few degrees of horizontal on the receiver round.
Thanks R-M but I am still learning. I have been lucky in finding the odd and rare ones and posting them for others to note. Also, I think that if SKSguy45 took the picture directly above the timing mark they would line up. I have taken several pictures of the line-up marks and found that they do not line up if not taken at 90 degrees to rifle.
(https://i.ibb.co/X7KzVfR/IMG-6121.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LxcCvD7)
I have previously mentioned the width of the front sling mount being wider than later designs. Here are the differences
(https://i.ibb.co/9yVdx9V/IMG-5547.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mhXPnCX)
upload image (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/WkMZ8fM/IMG-6129.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Lxcmj1c)
Took a picture of the sling mount.
(https://i.ibb.co/25RwqcB/IMG-6174.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HXR07GQ)
I don't have the tools to measure the inside of the sling mount, but a tapered pen will show the difference.
(https://i.ibb.co/TwqrqzH/IMG-6179.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kG6M6Yh)
(https://i.ibb.co/gS4bHFC/IMG-6184.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R3jGZ4W)
(https://i.ibb.co/PDR1PB3/IMG-6181.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LNM9c4b)
(https://i.ibb.co/8P2nQBp/IMG-6186.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3SW5Psq)
On page 6 there is a post - 1948 Russian SKS. It is a deactivated 1948 SKS, but there is one picture that I am asking other's opinion on. On the trigger it appears that there are no knurls on safety or mag release. If that is so, then it is a 1948 carry-over to Sean's and my early 49s.
(https://i.ibb.co/1GSrMJDk/15821481-zps86vmaxbu.webp) (https://ibb.co/3mJpvYDn)
Another thing about that. I’ve been wondering about the 1948 and earlier dated rifles/dust covers we have seen. Do we know these were production rifles? They all seem to have СКС stamped on their dust covers. I was looking at early AKs to see if they shared this [model]-[year of adoption] format, and then I saw this on an AK46
(https://i.ibb.co/h1FwPJtz/IMG-5770.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Fq4CSLjT)
Very similar to the markings on the 1948
(https://i.ibb.co/R4z1DCmc/IMG-5769.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LhnMZCW1)
Now correct me if Im wrong here but I think the 1948 rifle we see here isn’t a production rifle but is actually a late pre production prototype that was later converted to a cutaway, kinda like how a lot of PPS 42 SMGs were made into cutaways for the later PPS 43.
Quote from: theSKSguy45 on February 22, 2025, 10:18:30 PM
Another thing about that. I’ve been wondering about the 1948 and earlier dated rifles/dust covers we have seen. Do we know these were production rifles? They all seem to have СКС stamped on their dust covers. I was looking at early AKs to see if they shared this [model]-[year of adoption] format, and then I saw this on an AK46
(https://i.ibb.co/h1FwPJtz/IMG-5770.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Fq4CSLjT)
Very similar to the markings on the 1948
(https://i.ibb.co/R4z1DCmc/IMG-5769.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LhnMZCW1)
Now correct me if Im wrong here but I think the 1948 rifle we see here isn’t a production rifle but is actually a late pre production prototype that was later converted to a cutaway, kinda like how a lot of PPS 42 SMGs were made into cutaways for the later PPS 43.
Possible. I have two uncut 1948 receiver covers and one uncut 1946 receiver cover. The serial formats on all three are consistent with reported trial rifle serial formats.