OK, so here is my first question about my new rifle. When I was examining it before I bought it I noticed it had a fiberglass lookingreddish-brown stock and plastic handgaurd. I just figured it was the chinese being cheap and since the rifle was in such amazing shape I got it anyway, figuring that just how they came. So as I started to read and learn more about the SKS I learned this is what people were calling a Jungle Stock and it was made for the jungle evironments of Korea and/or Vietnam as the wooden stocks were more prone to rotting. Thats all I've been able to find. So my question is basicly what is the story with the jungle stocks? Did some rifles come from the factory with them and if so what determined which rifles got them and which didn't. Or were they purely an item that was added later as the wooden stocks wore out. Oh and I see the plastic handgaurds called the "french tickler" and these I've seen on rifles with wooden stocks as well. So same question about them. Did just some rifles get them and or what determined why?
dance2 dance2 dance2
Craig
Quote from: fchaus on January 09, 2022, 07:43:28 PM
OK, so here is my first question about my new rifle. When I was examining it before I bought it I noticed it had a fiberglass lookingreddish-brown stock and plastic handgaurd. I just figured it was the chinese being cheap and since the rifle was in such amazing shape I got it anyway, figuring that just how they came. So as I started to read and learn more about the SKS I learned this is what people were calling a Jungle Stock and it was made for the jungle evironments of Korea and/or Vietnam as the wooden stocks were more prone to rotting. Thats all I've been able to find. So my question is basicly what is the story with the jungle stocks? Did some rifles come from the factory with them and if so what determined which rifles got them and which didn't. Or were they purely an item that was added later as the wooden stocks wore out. Oh and I see the plastic handgaurds called the "french tickler" and these I've seen on rifles with wooden stocks as well. So same question about them. Did just some rifles get them and or what determined why?
dance2 dance2 dance2
Craig
'Jungle stock' has nothing to do with jungles, or Korea, or Vietnam.
It’s unknown whether any Type 56s were ever issued with a jungle stock. I’m not aware of any photographs of one in use by the Chinese military. It’s hard to prove a negative, such as, “they were never issued”. There’ve been one or two reports of SKSs purchased from retailers in a jungle stock, but that’s not proof they were actually used by the Chinese military.
The French tickler (bumpy plastic) handguards were found on 23rd and 24th year (1978, 1979) Type 56s from Jianshe, primarily.
I’ve never seen a Type 56 SKS with a jungle stock that I would consider to be ‘as issued’. Like P32 mentions, several have turned up at import/retail with the jungle stocks installed, but if you look at the arsenal and S/N of other sister guns in the same era, they have wood stocks with original S/Ns.
I personally think it was a cost saving measure or perhaps a quality improvement attempt (much like the laminate stocks seen very briefly in the year 10 & 11 /26\ carbines) that didn’t quite pan out like they wanted it to since T63 stocks were wood all the way through the end of production. Handguards did pan out, however, and you see those becoming common in the type 56 from year 23 (1978) onward at /26\ (and indeed those were proofed in the T63s, again produced from /26\).
So were they a Chinese thing or an American item? I with so little info on them I was skeptical about how much of the info was true about vietnam and all that. I see them for sale as "ultra rare jungle stock" and knew that was complete BS, but so it sounds like we dont know when , where or how they came to be with any degree of certainty?
Craig
I figure it was just another experiment by China on a way to cut costs. Could have simply been they were having issues getting the wood to make stocks with at a certain time. And in order to crank out the exports to the US they introduced the "Jungle" stock. Similar to some of the "Paratroopers". They may or may not have come from China that way, but they more than likely were not used for the purpose of the title given them.
All this is pure speculation of course as, unless we here it from China and assuming they are telling the truth, we will never really know.
I would say more of an experiment as well.. At the time "plastics" were being more explored and experimented with in this industry. The term "plastics" covers a broad spectrum - Fiberglass, Nylon, Resin, Phenolic, Polymer, fiber or wood impregnated...and probably other formulas. There were a few plastic AK stocks from certain nations, there was the AR, the polymer Glock, the Vz58 had a Phenolic wood impregnated stock. Remington was using plastic, Nylon stocks on the nylon rifles, and I'm sure there were other domestic arms in plastics.
And don't forget about the good old Bakelite!
Funny thing, I have a plastic stock for the M1 Garand that looks to be experimental. A lot of countries seem to dabble in it at one time or another.
And the mystery continues. :P :P :P
Craig
It is certain that the fiberglass and plastic jungle stocks weren’t created for the Korean War: no jungles, concluded 3 years before the first Type 56 rolled off the line. It’s very unlikely it was made for the Vietnam War: humid and wet jungles and waterways present, but of the 100s of period photos of the SKS, no jungle stocks seen.
The jungle stocks can have a wide variety of construction/manufacturing variations, a finish from nice to REAL cruddy, and colors that are vastly different. Unless acquired as a "set", the hand guards can be a tough match. The only jungle stocked rifle I've built, the furniture matches pretty good. It's pinned with all the metal bits scrubbed, blued bolt, a black Alby bayo, and a black navel sling. Looks factory made, it's the one on top. PAX
(https://i.ibb.co/BGvHpyM/002.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Jq8W1vJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/xJDFQHB/001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Yp30GZ1)
They were packaged in green crates just like the carbines though...
(https://i.ibb.co/B6q2KFq/crate-jungle-stocks1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/3fshzNB/crate-jungle-stocks2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/S6KkKJh/crate-jungle-stocks3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/jrZLCPy/crate-jungle-stocks4.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/C2q24w2/crate-jungle-stocks5.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/G7g6LB1/crate-jungle-stocks6.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/BtZhmXW/crate-jungle-stocks7.jpg)
Interesting pics. So they come imported covered in cosmo like the assembled rifles? Mine is the kind with the sling swivel in the bottom like the ones in the photos, not the side. In good shape I actually think they look good. I like the deep redish color. I have an appointment at my FFL this saturday to transfer the rest of the firearms I got in the sale and then 10 days to actually take possession of them (thanks California). Once I get them all in hand I'll take some pics and post them for you all.
What part of Kali are you hiding? I'm in the central valley. PAX
Hey Pax, Santa Cruz. Graduated Tracy High. Class of '89. Nice to know there are some others from Kali that know what stupid crap we have to deal with. Like I can have a foot long pokie thing on the from of my rifle, but if it has a pistol grip. OMG, we're all gonna die!
:P :P :P
Craig
This is my blade cut jungle stock that I installed on a 1957 Type 56. The stocks definitely require fitting, as in, they haven't been mated to a barreled action before.
https://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=5415.0
Quote from: fchaus on January 16, 2022, 05:17:24 PM
Hey Pax, Santa Cruz. Graduated Tracy High. Class of '89. Nice to know there are some others from Kali that know what stupid crap we have to deal with. Like I can have a foot long pokie thing on the from of my rifle, but if it has a pistol grip. OMG, we're all gonna die!
:P :P :P
Craig
You must remember "Trinkle & Boys" crop dusters in Vernalis, Hwy 33 & Durham Ferry. I worked for them for 10 years, '76 - '85. Where our old strip was, is soccer fields for New Jerusalem now. I live in Ripon, PAX
I've been down to Sandia National Lab in Livermore many times. Driven through Tracy and Ripon on the way to Mariposa and back. My wife had some training down there. I've never lived in California but I've been there about 100 times for work.
Yup, the yellow bi-planes. My mom was distant cousin to the old man before he passed (ninties I think). Well, I will only be here in Kali for a bit longer. Putting the house up for sale soon and getting the heck out.
Good luck wherever you land. PAX