This SKS was discussed over on Gunboards about two months ago. Howie spotted the cast receiver and the OP apparently wanted a shooter... A few weeks later I was a bit surprised to recognize it in my alerts from GunBroker, so I watched it. The starting price was only $350 and I didn't have to bid up much to take it home.
This thread is going to be really picture heavy since this manufacturing variant is unexpectedly fascinating to me. Given how rare these cast receivers are I figured it deserved a good spread anyhow :)
It's a Type 56 made at [0129] in 1971, which represents the earliest example from that arsenal. Matching numbers throughout with unnumbered gas tube and gas piston. The Arsenal 0129 designers really went all-in on the castings: receiver, gas block, sight blocks, etc. At least the pinned barrel is milled from a barrel blank lol You can see the micro gas voids in the receiver sides especially and the rough unfinished sand casting at the front of the receiver where the barrel is pinned by a single horizontal pin on the bottom.
I believe the CAI stamp is a new addition to RM's import marking database too thumb1
(https://i.ibb.co/kD54bRj/01-left-full.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bvQswST)
(https://i.ibb.co/cXxWjXn/02-left.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Pzt2dzH)
(https://i.ibb.co/XWbCNQW/03-left.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NFsyQvF)
(https://i.ibb.co/fp8sQX8/04-right.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J7x9Ccx)
(https://i.ibb.co/S5zTkQz/05-right.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sbZST5Z)
(https://i.ibb.co/GWpzkLw/06-right-full.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c634tH5)
(https://i.ibb.co/hDZRwJS/07-right.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f4nYLzs)
(https://i.ibb.co/jWNx7zY/08-right.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Tbfnz1G)
(https://i.ibb.co/cDjkVmF/09-right.jpg) (https://ibb.co/86HNth5)
(https://i.ibb.co/DYFLXY8/10-right.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0KLQNKF)
(https://i.ibb.co/Rp5FNqz/11-SN-receiver.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tMdGz98)
(https://i.ibb.co/DtRhWx9/12-SN-bolt-carrier-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BtCb3Xy)
(https://i.ibb.co/YySN17L/13-SN-bolt.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TbGw7Bg)
(https://i.ibb.co/D9q2n4r/14-SN-mag-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9bM5jnZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/jDwyRv1/15-SN-trigger-group-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DQM9pDS)
(https://i.ibb.co/YPczNKv/16-SN-rec-cover.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bQsS6yp)
(https://i.ibb.co/9VCwp3V/17-SN-stock.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P9fTrz9)
RECEIVER
(https://i.ibb.co/Y7TqPJN/receiver-barrel-pin-left.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kg6W5zG)
(https://i.ibb.co/fkrbbbJ/receiver-barrel-pin-right.jpg) (https://ibb.co/StV222S)
(https://i.ibb.co/319Zrtq/receiver-bottom-barrel-ring.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p2BF0C8)
(https://i.ibb.co/s9Vc2d6/receiver-bottom-front.jpg) (https://ibb.co/B2Cvt5r)
(https://i.ibb.co/30dFMMg/receiver-bottom-rear.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZhXgYYq)
(https://i.ibb.co/mXTy3QC/receiver-inside-rear.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4YtSHBZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/YPNNzzY/receiver-inside-top.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6ryy33V)
(https://i.ibb.co/NVyMscy/receiver-left-bolt-race.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Wx2L6m2)
(https://i.ibb.co/1dTLRkR/receiver-left-front-casting-voids.jpg) (https://ibb.co/X3tbFqF)
(https://i.ibb.co/VxBZRHm/receiver-left-front.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NrYP51S)
(https://i.ibb.co/Ws7KJ1C/receiver-left-rear.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mSdzW7p)
(https://i.ibb.co/Fg5dfyw/receiver-recoil-lug-recess.jpg) (https://ibb.co/72n0TZW)
(https://i.ibb.co/NrKfYvr/receiver-right-mag-well.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZSxvTjS)
(https://i.ibb.co/wyybpvD/receiver-right-rear.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zssLPkK)
GAS BLOCK
(https://i.ibb.co/wyxDNZ4/gas-block-bottom.jpg) (https://ibb.co/v1K2xCk)
(https://i.ibb.co/qdTcnB0/gas-block-right.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XbcK4Xy)
REAR SIGHT BLOCK
(https://i.ibb.co/93dwRTQ/rear-sight-block-left.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zHt8KRq)
(https://i.ibb.co/4sg3PY5/rear-sight-block-right.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q8jtrC1)
FRONT SIGHT BLOCK/BAYONET LUG
(https://i.ibb.co/Px1Ljgb/front-sight-base-bottom.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nrQGmjV)
(https://i.ibb.co/dPLPJJN/front-sight-base-top.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Pc9czz2)
(https://i.ibb.co/NCrdkX4/front-sight-block-left.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zxFTL1k)
(https://i.ibb.co/zVFHk2R/front-sight-block-right.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3mvYJFN)
TRIGGER GROUP
(https://i.ibb.co/RS5VZBz/trigger-group-inlet.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N34HQmZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/1nkZMD1/trigger-group-left-front.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qnvBCtK)
(https://i.ibb.co/k0HRTfz/trigger-group-right-front.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L6kLyWB)
(https://i.ibb.co/XYRCcFj/trigger-group-right-hammer.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RjwDRQY)
(https://i.ibb.co/5nhJJTT/trigger-group-right-rear.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SdwZZNN)
(https://i.ibb.co/9yc89vS/trigger-group-trigger-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L9YkzPH)
(https://i.ibb.co/3TcKrz2/trigger-group-trigger.jpg) (https://ibb.co/grJYjVN)
RECEIVER COVER
(https://i.ibb.co/nMwGqgn/A-receiver-cover-inside-rear.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gZr2bjP)
(https://i.ibb.co/kg7jshd/A-receiver-cover-inside.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QFgL365)
GAS TUBE
(https://i.ibb.co/310LVB9/gas-tube-bottom.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cJN7RDS)
(https://i.ibb.co/y6Ykx7r/gas-tube-top.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gSPWchx)
CAI IMPORT MARK
(https://i.ibb.co/sJQXt0B/Century-Arms-Inc-St-Albans-VT.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1JK4bDS)
Jon, that one looks even rougher than mine. It's almost like the cover is cast as well. By the looks of it, they used an early front sight base for their mold pattern. Also wonder if they tempered everything before stamping since most of them are light strikes. Very interesting piece. Thanks, Bruce.
Sweet!
Looks like a really nice example.
Quote from: Bacarnal on May 07, 2020, 11:46:19 PM
Jon, that one looks even rougher than mine. It's almost like the cover is cast as well. By the looks of it, they used an early front sight base for their mold pattern. Also wonder if they tempered everything before stamping since most of them are light strikes. Very interesting piece. Thanks, Bruce.
Bruce, I agree that the receiver cover is cast as well. I think the rough and mottled appearance of the steel indicates casting. Yes an earlier front sight base with the lightening cuts appears in order.
The receiver markings, especially, are very shallow, which suggests either surface hardening before striking with the die, or less likely, a very cautious strike because the receivers were too brittle and prone to cracking :o
I wonder if they did cycles to failure testing on the cast and stamped receivers. They only produced them from 1970-71 (
edit: perhaps 1970-80, 1976 example in reply #6, 1972 and 1980 examples in reply # 16) , so either they found the receivers failed too quickly or the reduction in labor hours per unit was insignificant vs. milling the receivers from forged steel.
Quote from: Larry D. on May 08, 2020, 02:38:49 AM
Sweet!
Looks like a really nice example.
Thanks Larry. I didn’t have any great desire to acquire one of the stamped or cast receiver examples prior to this, but I’m pleased to have it and find it very interesting now that I have it in my hands..
Nice! thumb1 This is the first one I have seen in pictures. Very interesting to say the least.
Jon, I think mine was made in 1976, factory 0221, serial 21004858. They milled the bottom of your receiver, while mine they left rough. On the underside of your FSB, is that a casting flaw or a crack?
(https://i.ibb.co/b1YmRRP/20190630-141133-resized.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Here's the link back to mine for a comparison:
https://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=4616.0
Quote from: Phosphorus32 on May 08, 2020, 05:03:10 AM
Quote from: Larry D. on May 08, 2020, 02:38:49 AM
Sweet!
Looks like a really nice example.
Thanks Larry. I didn’t have any great desire to acquire one of the stamped or cast receiver examples prior to this, but I’m pleased to have it and find it very interesting now that I have it in my hands..
As you should be.
I'd be proud as a peacock to have that one.
Before I found this site, I never knew they existed. As such, I keep an eye out for them now.
I figure most people don't know about them, either. Ergo I might find a real bargain somewhere.
Most folks in my age bracket remember when the SKS was everywhere for super cheap. A lot of those same people still have that mentality that it's just a cheap gun that they can now make a few bucks on.
Honestly, I never figured that an SKS would regularly sell for 400+ dollars, but here we are.
Good hunting fellas!
Quote from: astronut on May 08, 2020, 07:52:38 AM
Nice! thumb1 This is the first one I have seen in pictures. Very interesting to say the least.
Thanks!
Quote from: Bacarnal on May 08, 2020, 09:18:10 AM
Jon, I think mine was made in 1976, factory 0221, serial 21004858. They milled the bottom of your receiver, while mine they left rough. On the underside of your FSB, is that a casting flaw or a crack?
(https://i.ibb.co/b1YmRRP/20190630-141133-resized.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Here's the link back to mine for a comparison:
https://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=4616.0
Indeed, 1976. Great example!
Just a casting flaw on the fsb. Interesting how they cast (overcast?) the other parts, even the gas block, and milled or ground them smooth but the fsb is as raw as it could be.
Larry, I think we have the same attitude on these. I’d gladly have one but I wasn’t interested enough to pay the $200-300 premium they fetch on GunBroker when they’re properly identified.
The seller advertised his honestly as “unusual”, which was true based on the pictures he showed of only the front end of the receiver with its indications of sand casting. I really didn’t move from 80% to 100% convinced that it was cast until I took possession of it, disassembled it and inspected it closely. The peppering of small casting voids on the milled sides of the receiver in addition to that rough front end, convinced me.
Nice example and great find, Jon.
Is there any indication as to time frames and number of factories that made the cast weapons? So far I've seen yours (0129/1971) and mine (0221/1976). Given the starting point of 1970, is there evidence of them being made past 1976?
I'm still hoping to stumble across a stamped one. There was an SKS on GB that had a stamped cover, but no other indication of stamping.
Quote from: Bacarnal on May 08, 2020, 12:55:24 PM
Nice example and great find, Jon.
Is there any indication as to time frames and number of factories that made the cast weapons? So far I've seen yours (0129/1971) and mine (0221/1976). Given the starting point of 1970, is there evidence of them being made past 1976?
I'm still hoping to stumble across a stamped one. There was an SKS on GB that had a stamped cover, but no other indication of stamping.
From the Serial Data Board, these are the observed examples; Arsenal (number observed), years of production:
Stamped Receivers
[0138] (28), 1970-71
[0145] (1), 1971
Cast Receivers
[0129] (1), 1971
[0221] (6), 1970, 1976 (2 of the 6 are in 1976)
DB Harbin (1), 1970
Of course, there are likely many more examples than the ones we have recorded, but they haven't been photographed and posted anywhere, or the pictures didn't allow an assignment as a cast or stamped. In any case the cast receivers are definitely rare. The stamped ones are generally easy to observe with their rounded edges and the front trunnion arrangement.
Another great find by P32, you're having a good year with the "finds" so far.
I was trying to stay away from these but I may have to get at least one, eventually.
Quote from: Bob_The_Student on May 08, 2020, 03:27:07 PM
Another great find by P32, you're having a good year with the "finds" so far.
I was trying to stay away from these but I may have to get at least one, eventually.
Thanks Bob! Yeah, it just popped up on my auction feed and I was able to get it at a reasonable price, otherwise I wouldn't have one...cuz I'm cheap rofl
beauty and such a great buy. got to go shopping with you, yup, i'm a cheap oldfart too. thumb1
Quote from: Phosphorus32 on May 08, 2020, 01:52:13 PM
From the Serial Data Board, these are the observed examples; Arsenal (number observed), years of production:
Stamped Receivers
[0138] (28), 1970-71
[0145] (1), 1971
Cast Receivers
[0129] (1), 1971
[0221] (6), 1970, 1976 (2 of the 6 are in 1976)
DB Harbin (1), 1970
Of course, there are likely many more examples than the ones we have recorded, but they haven't been photographed and posted anywhere, or the pictures didn't allow an assignment as a cast or stamped. In any case the cast receivers are definitely rare. The stamped ones are generally easy to observe with their rounded edges and the front trunnion arrangement.
thumb1
Also, remember that the S/N board really doesn't necessarily have the full info all populated either, labeling a gun "cast" wasn't done early on so many were likely missed. Additionally, many of the photo sets simply don't give enough detail or a good shot of the receiver out of the stock that would lead to a definitive appraisal.
Some that I know for certain are cast are:
[0132] 1970:
(https://i.ibb.co/c8ypKsc/7005657-receiver.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/zxDPGg5/7005657-receiver-bottom.jpg)
[0221] 1980:
(https://i.ibb.co/vzRrHfv/25001319-receiver.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/vzV0MWS/25001319-receiver-cottom2.jpg)
Likely cast, but only have a single example, the cleanup is quite extensive on it though:
[0226b] 1972:
(https://i.ibb.co/DLHj1Gh/72025-receiver.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/hB3c3TB/72025-receiver-bottom.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZzPXLk4/72025-bottom.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/RYzbrJx/72025-bottom-lug.jpg)
And likely this DP Tonghua:
(https://i.ibb.co/nzchb4C/2300549-receiver.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/mXjqmKt/2300549-receiver-bottom2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/9ppz5HJ/2300549-receiver-bottom.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/rMNTNQH/2300549-receiver-bottom3.jpg)
Thanks RM thumb1
That 1972 [0226b] example reminds me a lot of mine with the casting larger than the finished receiver dimensions to allow milling of the surfaces, with the micro gas bubble flaws in the sides of the receiver showing up as well.
The 1980 example is somewhat surprising. That indicates the Chinese experimented with cast receivers for quite a long time.
Most excellent acquisition, P32. I'm glad someone with an appreciation was able to purchase it.
Quote from: martin08 on May 08, 2020, 06:08:46 PM
Most excellent acquisition, P32. I'm glad someone with an appreciation was able to purchase it.
Thanks Matt! I'm glad it popped up in my saved search feed. I'll take good care of it thumb1
I think this is the eighth Chinese arsenal in my collection, so maybe just under 100 to go :o I think I'll leave that endeavor to Howie
Found another on GB. Factory 0148, looks like 1971.
Jon, are you going to use it as a shooter or as a collector?
(https://i.ibb.co/ZNTFWxq/20200508-204626.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0QJ6hrH)
(https://i.ibb.co/VQCf0Q1/20200508-204720.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b2vcj20)
(https://i.ibb.co/vjtWTWC/20200508-204648.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XCwPKPf)
Interesting thumb1
Mine will not likely see a shot fired while it's in my possession. I have plenty of shooters :)
Quote from: Bacarnal on May 08, 2020, 08:53:43 PM
Found another on GB. Factory 0148, looks like 1971.
Hey Bruce, PM or post that auction for me if you wouldn't mind. I'd like to pull those photos for the database. I don't have many [0148]'s in the database (4 to be exact, 1971 to 1972)....
Quote from: Phosphorus32 on May 08, 2020, 05:56:36 PM
That 1972 [0226b] example reminds me a lot of mine with the casting larger than the finished receiver dimensions to allow milling of the surfaces, with the micro gas bubble flaws in the sides of the receiver showing up as well.
Funny, I never considered that one cast, just a huge mystery to me. It was interesting to see that one with my morning coffee as it hangs four guns above my laptop. :P
That one I got as a barreled receiver only. It now sports 90% parts from one gun....and wears (until I can locate a replacement at NOT today's prices...) the receiver cover from my cast DB, which is currently donning a scope mount that only fits that gun....which is also a hot mess of non original parts. The 0226b is also on my Covid to-do list for headspacing the new bolt.
(That got interrupted by my 'new' Classic that I am about to get elbow deep on decosmolining the stock....pics soon!)Love the photo spread Phosphorus32....I saw that and left the tab open a couple days ago before any responses....pleased to hit refresh today for the discussion. :)
Hey Justin -
Those receiver cover mounts can usually be touched up a little bit with a file or stone in order to make them fit several rifles.
It usually doesn't take too much effort at all.
Thanks Justin!
That’s an interesting story on yours thumb1 :) Best of luck finding a receiver cover. They have gone up a lot but I think it’s still possible to find one for $30, with patience.
Quote from: Larry D. on May 09, 2020, 07:16:09 PM
Hey Justin -
Those receiver cover mounts can usually be touched up a little bit with a file or stone in order to make them fit several rifles.
It usually doesn't take too much effort at all.
This DB is a tad small in almost every dimension, so a mount cover I had gotten a tad over indulgent with the file upon now only fits this gun....it's actual cover is a bit loose on the 0226b. Fortunately, moments after posting, I found a rusty cover missing some blue at the most reasonable price I have seen in months. $28 shipped...so I pounced. Every other one was $45 and up...and has been more outrageous than I was willing to bite on for months. Problem solved. :)
Quote from: Phosphorus32 on May 10, 2020, 07:22:41 AM
Thanks Justin!
That’s an interesting story on yours thumb1 :) Best of luck finding a receiver cover. They have gone up a lot but I think it’s still possible to find one for $30, with patience.
From your fingertips to some eBay sellers ears....one popped up for less than an hour right after I posted. $25 with $3 shipping. :)
You bought both, right?
Quote from: Justin Hell on May 10, 2020, 12:39:33 PM
Quote from: Phosphorus32 on May 10, 2020, 07:22:41 AM
Thanks Justin!
That’s an interesting story on yours thumb1 :) Best of luck finding a receiver cover. They have gone up a lot but I think it’s still possible to find one for $30, with patience.
From your fingertips to some eBay sellers ears....one popped up for less than an hour right after I posted. $25 with $3 shipping. :)
:o dang, that’s a good price these days, good snag thumb1