SKS-FILES FORUM

General Milsurp Weapons => Milsurp Hand Guns & Sub Guns => Topic started by: Phosphorus32 on April 18, 2020, 10:44:06 PM

Title: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Phosphorus32 on April 18, 2020, 10:44:06 PM
Amazingly, this Model 1917 is my first Colt firearm! It's a Model 1917 in .45ACP. It was provisionally inspected by Francis l. Hosmer, as indicated by the "H" marks on the barrel and cylinder. Final inspection was by Col. Gilbert H. Stewart (GHS), as indicated by the stylized GHS on the left side of the frame in front of the hammer. Matching serial numbers are found on the frame, the crane, and penciled on both grips, which is correct. The US Army Service number is on the heel of the frame.

Mine is not as nice an example as GM's in his sticky at the top of this sub-forum on the very substantially different Colt and S&W Model 1917s but it does appear to be correct with honest wear and I'm quite pleased with my first Colt!

(https://i.ibb.co/Dby4X51/00-Colt-close.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6ZxYhgy)

(https://i.ibb.co/09h7CnP/01-right-full.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GMc6Wdg)

(https://i.ibb.co/026ckK3/02-left-full.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F3yK9Xt)

(https://i.ibb.co/kS38n8B/03-Model-1917.jpg) (https://ibb.co/S3QnTny)

(https://i.ibb.co/j3PK4wW/04-Barrel-US-property.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BT5Ds6r)

(https://i.ibb.co/Fq9tKLN/05-Barrel-patent.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sJhr2dk)

(https://i.ibb.co/qNSCZ4H/06-GHS.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZBjSZwQ)

(https://i.ibb.co/V9mfYZW/07-DA-45.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vqY04Gx)

(https://i.ibb.co/2v68cTB/08-H-barrel.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k4y3qtF)

(https://i.ibb.co/tz82vfM/09-H-cylinder.jpg) (https://ibb.co/42PSXyZ)

(https://i.ibb.co/nmbTvPG/10-SN-frame.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xLDy0Fk)

(https://i.ibb.co/hYpw8T5/11-SN-crane.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TWzdhNX)

(https://i.ibb.co/S6ccQc0/12-SN-left-grip.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Jcqqxq2)

(https://i.ibb.co/ckJpJBG/13-SN-right-grip.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xXhchkp)

(https://i.ibb.co/SrcSvZk/14-left-perspective-rear-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9thPYdx)

(https://i.ibb.co/nw0LBCr/15-right-perspective-rear.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JcdsqQn)
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Bob_The_Student on April 19, 2020, 04:30:03 AM
Congrats, P32. I like everything about it, especially the wear.
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Phosphorus32 on April 19, 2020, 06:25:06 AM
Quote from: Bob_The_Student on April 19, 2020, 04:30:03 AM
Congrats, P32. I like everything about it, especially the wear.

Thanks Bob! Yeah, just nice honest wear.
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: carls sks on April 19, 2020, 08:43:52 AM
piece of our history, very cool. that is one I would pass down in my family. thanks for sharing. thumb1
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Greasemonkey on April 19, 2020, 09:14:50 AM
 thumb1 thumb1 Nice example P32 thumb1


Glad I could enable the Enabler :)

Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Larry D. on April 19, 2020, 11:15:47 AM
Beautiful revolver.

I'd have to have all the related gear as well, though.

Holster, belt, etc.....
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Phosphorus32 on April 19, 2020, 03:45:53 PM
Quote from: carls sks on April 19, 2020, 08:43:52 AM
piece of our history, very cool. that is one I would pass down in my family. thanks for sharing. thumb1

Thanks Carl!
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Phosphorus32 on April 19, 2020, 03:46:37 PM
Quote from: Greasemonkey on April 19, 2020, 09:14:50 AM
thumb1 thumb1 Nice example P32 thumb1


Glad I could enable the Enabler :)

Thanks man!  Always the enabler...it just took me a while this time  rofl
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Phosphorus32 on April 19, 2020, 03:48:02 PM
Quote from: Larry D. on April 19, 2020, 11:15:47 AM
Beautiful revolver.

I'd have to have all the related gear as well, though.

Holster, belt, etc.....

Agreed. It'd be great to have a holster, belt, and the 3 pocket half-moon clip pouch. As a start, I do have a half dozen original half-moon clips coming tomorrow. At least I can shoot it then.
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Phosphorus32 on April 19, 2020, 03:58:11 PM
Update:

I took off the sideplate this morning and found the serial number located on the back was matching as well.

(https://i.ibb.co/FKBBzDS/11-SN-sideplate.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6m44FW3)


The matching H for Hosmer on the cylinder and barrel indicates they're original mates. Furthermore, the early cylinders didn't have the step for headspacing without half moon clips. This is one of those cylinders, basically the chambers are constant radius cylinders and it can't be fired without clips in place.

The GHS marking indicates it's from the first 30,000 of ~155,000 produced for the Army, so the early cylinder features are consistent with that. Many cylinders were changed later during refurbishment, but this one shows no signs of ever being near a refurbishment facility.

(https://i.ibb.co/BLjW1qT/16-cylinder-inside.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q9nS5rY)

(https://i.ibb.co/8Y3F1cP/17-cylinder-cartridge-flush.jpg) (https://ibb.co/phDCYy4)
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Bacarnal on April 19, 2020, 07:22:36 PM
You can't go wrong with a New Service P32 thumb1.  Nice strong frame and still in good shape.  Using a BAR belt for background,  I see.
I know I've got some half and full moons around here somewhere...I'll look for them since it seems you'll need some.
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Phosphorus32 on April 19, 2020, 07:56:57 PM
Quote from: Bacarnal on April 19, 2020, 07:22:36 PM
You can't go wrong with a New Service P32 thumb1.  Nice strong frame and still in good shape.  Using a BAR belt for background,  I see.
I know I've got some half and full moons around here somewhere...I'll look for them since it seems you'll need some.

Thanks!

Yup, good eyes. I don’t have much in the way of WWI US militaria, but I picked up that BAR belt a long time ago.

I do have 6 clips arriving tomorrow but I appreciate the thought  thumb1
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Larry D. on April 20, 2020, 12:16:43 AM
Quote from: Phosphorus32 on April 19, 2020, 03:48:02 PM
Quote from: Larry D. on April 19, 2020, 11:15:47 AM
Beautiful revolver.

I'd have to have all the related gear as well, though.

Holster, belt, etc.....

Agreed. It'd be great to have a holster, belt, and the 3 pocket half-moon clip pouch. As a start, I do have a half dozen original half-moon clips coming tomorrow. At least I can shoot it then.

Are you going to load for it?

I'll have to dig around in my oddball stuff, I may have a belt around here somewhere. Pretty sure I have a WWI canteen and cover, too.
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: martin08 on April 20, 2020, 12:50:52 PM
Your cylinder chambers look stepped in the first pic.  But the second pic shows the .45 acp round swallowed completely up to the rim.  So, it is the early cylinder.
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Larry D. on April 20, 2020, 02:24:26 PM
Does 45 Auto Rim (45AR) work for these as well?

I had an old converted 455 Eley that needed moon clips or 45AR.

Just for the record - This is one of the few handguns that actually takes a clip instead of a magazine.
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Phosphorus32 on April 20, 2020, 02:53:28 PM
Quote from: martin08 on April 20, 2020, 12:50:52 PM
Your cylinder chambers look stepped in the first pic.  But the second pic shows the .45 acp round swallowed completely up to the rim.  So, it is the early cylinder.

Yes, it does look stepped in the picture. That's an interesting optical illusion created by the surface finish differences from significant fire-etching. As you point out, the empirical approach with the cartridge indicates that it isn't stepped.
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Phosphorus32 on April 20, 2020, 02:59:17 PM
Quote from: Larry D. on April 20, 2020, 02:24:26 PM
Does 45 Auto Rim (45AR) work for these as well?

I had an old converted 455 Eley that needed moon clips or 45AR.

Just for the record - This is one of the few handguns that actually takes a clip instead of a magazine.

Yes, the 45 Auto Rim was designed specifically for these pistols (Colt and S&W M1917s) to bypass the need for moon clips. I don't plan to reload for this, so may get some low recoil 45ACP ammo to use with the half-moon clips, if I fire it.
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Phosphorus32 on April 20, 2020, 06:22:09 PM
Half-moon clips arrived  :)

(https://i.ibb.co/ypdDdnk/18-loaded-cylinder.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G9nXnvM)

(https://i.ibb.co/3T4HZG1/19-half-moon-clips.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yNdJjG0)
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Bob_The_Student on April 20, 2020, 07:27:33 PM
Learn me up real quick somebody. Did they not step the cylinder because of costs? Or what is the reason they decided that was a good idea to use the clips, does it have to do with reloading? Like a speed loader of sorts?
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Greasemonkey on April 20, 2020, 08:00:33 PM
Quote from: Bob_The_Student on April 20, 2020, 07:27:33 PM
Learn me up real quick somebody. Did they not step the cylinder because of costs? Or what is the reason they decided that was a good idea to use the clips, does it have to do with reloading? Like a speed loader of sorts?

The moon clips are easy to load, just drop it in the cylinder.. unloading is a tad slow, the cases swell slightly and get tight. I've tried both of mine with and without clips, stick with clips even if the cylinder is cut, other wise your poking individual shells out with a rod if they stick. I've only used plain WWB and some target CCI ammo in both, figure it's pretty much safe given it's just plain low pressure target ammo.

I have had slightly better luck with the full moon verses the half moon clips. The extractor catches the whole thing squarely.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/4ygqr9j0cqkg9mw/SAM_3075.JPG?dl=0)

Not a really good shot, but this is how far the case sits when the cylinder is cut for use without clips.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/hb0xhhasssr2dne/SAM_3072.JPG?dl=0)

I did manage to score a box of 45 auto rim.. :)
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Phosphorus32 on April 20, 2020, 10:27:40 PM
Quote from: Bob_The_Student on April 20, 2020, 07:27:33 PM
Learn me up real quick somebody. Did they not step the cylinder because of costs? Or what is the reason they decided that was a good idea to use the clips, does it have to do with reloading? Like a speed loader of sorts?

Yup, the moon and half-moon clips are faster to load and unload. S&W had a patent on them.

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/53/54/b7/1504a16c3c5e28/US923068.pdf

I believe the historical events were:
US: We can’t make the M1911 fast enough to fulfill our needs dudes.
US: Bro, who can make pistols quickly, chambered in .45 ACP?
Colt and S&W: We can totally convert our heavy frame revolvers to take .45 ACP by using a different cylinder and barrel!
US: Awesome dudes, do it!
S&W: We can use half-moon clips for faster reloads and easy carry of cartridges!
US: Great, do it and it’d be brotastic if you let Colt use your patent!
S&W:  >:( buzzkill dude...but yeah, okay for the flag and all, we got yer back bro!
US: You know these are totally awesome and we love the half-moon clips so much that we made a three compartment pouch for up to three full reloads.
Colt and S&W: but...?
US: ...but dudes, it would be rad if you could load individual cartridges if necessary.
Colt and S&W: Okay, that’ll take a little longer to machine the chambers of the cylinder but we can do that.
US: Cool!


Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Bacarnal on April 20, 2020, 10:42:56 PM
And here I thought you were from the East side of Washington, not from Kali... rofl.
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Greasemonkey on April 20, 2020, 11:03:14 PM
P32, dude.. you seriously need to lay off the tv......  earlier it was Remington Steele... I guess you done found Bill & Teds movies on the tv now :o rofl2


I'd hate to see what happened if you watched.... Friday, New Jack City or Dangerous Minds. rofl2   On second thought..Ebonics and a PhD think1  rofl2 chuckles1
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Phosphorus32 on April 21, 2020, 04:20:47 AM
Quote from: Bacarnal on April 20, 2020, 10:42:56 PM
And here I thought you were from the East side of Washington, not from Kali... rofl.

Feeling a little flaky  :P rofl
Title: Re: Model 1917 Colt Revolver
Post by: Phosphorus32 on April 21, 2020, 04:27:56 AM
Quote from: Greasemonkey on April 20, 2020, 11:03:14 PM
P32, dude.. you seriously need to lay off the tv......  earlier it was Remington Steele... I guess you done found Bill & Teds movies on the tv now :o rofl2


I'd hate to see what happened if you watched.... Friday, New Jack City or Dangerous Minds. rofl2   On second thought..Ebonics and a PhD think1  rofl2 chuckles1

Excellent!!!


Dangerous Minds ... think1 ... yeah, pretty much sums it up  :))