(Editors note: This topic was split from the original Chinese Type 56 dating thread -RM)
Ahhh, I didn't see that the whole thing shifted by a year when I PMed last night...it was kind of late. That throws off a lot of the content of the message to you. ;)
Let me present to you a 1964 (9 mil) with a spike bayo long barrel lug, the stock is not serialed, and may have been replaced upon importation, or by whoever hacked the heck out of the receiver to make it fit. It certainly was not done by me! >:(
It is an early B-West import with the almost invisible tiny import stamp...after scrubbing it for a few minutes, I realized it wasn't crud. I don't know if they were known for hack jobs and stock replacements...but, who knows. The patina on the metal is uniform on the entire gun, so I don't believe it was converted to a spike later. I suppose if it was converted very shortly after being built, it would appear uniform with a new U shaped stock retainer.
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2080.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2080.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2082.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2082.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2083.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2083.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2084.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2084.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2087.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2087.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2088.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2088.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2089.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2089.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2091.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2091.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2092.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2092.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2093.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2093.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2094.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2094.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2095.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2095.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2096.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2096.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2097.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2097.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2098.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2098.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2100.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2100.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2101.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2101.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2102.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2102.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2107.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2107.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2116.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/DSCN2116.jpg.html)
Stupid photobucket...hopefully after the third edit on posting these, they are actually showing up......grrrr.
Very clean and nice looking Justin!
I remember reading about the significance of the wide and narrow grooves on the bottom side of the sight ladder but do not remember what they mean. My two /26\ guns have both.
Agreed, very nice Justin. It's a shame about the non original stock though. I think we could entertain 9 mil being the introduction of the spike with perhaps additional 9 mils having blades. I know when we found the 3 mil bottom to side stock swivel, we looked to see if it was on a certain S/N range or whatnot. There wasn't a direct correlation but there were examples of mid and late numbers with side swivels and early, mid, and later numbers with bottoms. They obviously intoduced a new component into the mix before the old components had been fully used up. Maybe that's the same here. Maybe not, I think MrC has additional insights into this gun...
Quote from: Dannyboy53 on October 16, 2014, 03:11:37 PM
Very clean and nice looking Justin!
I remember reading about the significance of the wide and narrow grooves on the bottom side of the sight ladder but do not remember what they mean. My two /26\ guns have both.
Thanks! I don't remember what the deal is with the grooves either, all of my SKS's have the wide ones. I also don't think she is all that clean, I noticed quite a bit of cosmo in the nooks and crannies while using the camera in macro mode that I cannot see as easily with my eyes. :-[
Here is another oddball one going against the grain for its year so to speak, could be a transitional one...who knows. I just submitted this one to the survey, so hopefully it will help narrow down when some of the changes were implemented via serial data. I am sure that they don't just change things on Jan 1 each year.
Here is my 10 million 1965 /26\ (with side sling swivel) It is 100% matching. It also has an oil finish rather than shellac, which is unusual for this serial range, most I see have the red/orange shellac. Perhaps cosmoline soaked into raw unfinished wood? I have had it for at least 15 years...and I have never done anything to it to alter it's originality. Whenever I dress her funny, she gets a different gas tube. ;)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/1965%20factory%2026/DSCN2205.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/1965%20factory%2026/DSCN2205.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/1965%20factory%2026/DSCN2213.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/1965%20factory%2026/DSCN2213.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/1965%20factory%2026/DSCN2210.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/1965%20factory%2026/DSCN2210.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/1965%20factory%2026/DSCN2208.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/1965%20factory%2026/DSCN2208.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/1965%20factory%2026/DSCN2215.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/1965%20factory%2026/DSCN2215.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/1965%20factory%2026/DSCN2214.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/1965%20factory%2026/DSCN2214.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/1965%20factory%2026/DSCN2207.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/1965%20factory%2026/DSCN2207.jpg.html)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k214/kissvids/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/1965%20factory%2026/DSCN2206.jpg) (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/kissvids/media/1964%20%20Factory%2026%20%209%20million/1965%20factory%2026/DSCN2206.jpg.html)
Simply awesome Justin, very beautiful carbine!
That's a pretty high serialized 9 mill. My 904737X is blade
They were producing upwards of 400,000 a year by then.
Quote from: Dannyboy53 on October 16, 2014, 04:43:39 PM
Simply awesome Justine, very beautiful carbine!
Thanks, she is my favorite Chinese. :)
Quote from: Worm on October 16, 2014, 05:01:07 PM
That's a pretty high serialized 9 mill. My 904737X is blade
I wish mine was, kind of...its neat having an oddball though. It would be nice if more auctions would show complete serial numbers so I wouldn't have to burn so much gas and shoe leather hitting pawn shops and gun shows looking for another specimen. I think my only chance of getting another SKS anytime soon is if I convince wifey how much she would prefer a paratrooper. :))
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on October 16, 2014, 05:16:16 PM
They were producing upwards of 400,000 a year by then.
Wow, that's really smokin', this plant was obviously a larger operation than I imagined it!
I had some pictures of some extremely high /26\ serials, but cannot find them now. I blame RM for not saving everything I send him.
Guy on another board posted this one. VN bringback owned by a father-in-law, no papers though. Certainly looks the part.
Highest 9 mil I've ever seen a photo of. Spike bayo, short barrel lug, early bayo lug. We may have to revisit some of our transition assumptions! It seems the Chinese did with these transitions like they did with the bottom to side swivel transitions in the 3 mil /26\s: there's not a single S/N that marks the change but rather a S/N range where both types are used concurrently.
Very interesting to say the least.
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/9185506_left_whole.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/9185506_right_front.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/9185506_receiver.jpg)(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/9185506_stock_ferrule.jpg)
The plot thickens.
That is pretty interesting, since mine is a long lug barrel...with a lower serial.
I wonder if they had several assembly lines, some made up of older machining utilizing older parts and newer ones making the transition to newer designs...or if some parts were indeed made elsewhere, perhaps whenever shipments arrived they would have to make a run to use up the stock on hand? I have never unbarreled a receiver, but other than the lug difference, they would be interchangeable right?
Have any examples shown up in between my serial and his? If there are any bladed examples that could lend fuel for that theory it would be interesting too.
The short vs long lug should be universally interchangeable into a threaded receiver. In fact, that 9.18 mil I show above actually does have an early style RSB.
The blade to spike bayo change would require a different stock and different front stock ferrule.
I've never seen evidence that any components besides the 'Sino-Soviet' (ghost through letter series, 1956-1959) barreled receivers were made anywhere else. We can pretty much rule out that these are Russian provided barreled receivers as the Sino-Soviet split caused Russia to withdraw 1,400 Soviet technical experts from and halt military aid to China in 1960.
Jianshe was producing upwards of 200k type 56s a year with Soviet help. The very low numbers of 6 million series guns may be a direct result of the setbacks that China endured to go from free flowing Soviet help to being 100% on their own. It surely must have taken them a short while to be able to domestically produce large quantities of arms again.
I think its safe to move the blade/spike transition to late 1964, but the barrel lug transition is pretty well known and I see nothing out of the norm.
五六式 = Wǔliù shì. Translates to: "5 6 Type"a
1961: 6 mil /26\ long-lug, side-swivel, large-font stock <----First arrival of the (type 56) Chinese characters.
1962: 7 mil /26\ long-lug, side-swivel, large-font stock
1963: 8 mil /26\ long-log, side-swivel, large-font stock
1964: 9 mil /26\ long to short lug transition at 9.1-9.2m, side-swivel, large-font stock
1965: 10 mil /26\ short-lug, side swivel relocated to bottom mid year, bayo change to spike, large-font stock
1966: 11 mil /26\ short-lug, bottom-swivel, spike-bayo, large-font stock <---- First arrival of stamped trigger housings, two piece gas-tube, plus the deletion of the carrier and bay lug lightening cuts
1967: 12 mil /26\ short-lug, bottom-swivel, spike-bayo, large-font stock
1968: 13 mil /26\ short-lug, bottom-swivel, spike-bayo, large-font stock
1979: 14 mil /26\ short-lug, bottom-swivel, spike-bayo, large-font stock
Well since we're talkin 9 mills.. wink1
Mine has long lug, 9,047,347
and it has that short run of bulged stock ferrules.
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u604/mspeth23/imagejpg4_zps56f1a001.jpg)
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u604/mspeth23/imagejpg2_zps79bb287a.jpg)
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u604/mspeth23/imagejpg5_zpsdfe5ce83.jpg)
I can play the 9mil game thumb1 It also has the bulged stock ferrule.
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/C13mechanic/soviet%20sino/9million/HPIM0279_zpsed16c247.jpg) (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/C13mechanic/media/soviet%20sino/9million/HPIM0279_zpsed16c247.jpg.html)
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/C13mechanic/soviet%20sino/9million/HPIM0280_zpsd89014ff.jpg) (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/C13mechanic/media/soviet%20sino/9million/HPIM0280_zpsd89014ff.jpg.html)
Musta been an early feature, kewl
I don't think early. My six digi /26\ and both two mils are flat with no "bulge". Not sure about 3 mils or letters. Hey LC, that 6 mil you just got have a bulge?
I meant an early 9 Mill feature. I know the early Chinese didn't have it.
Quote from: running-man on November 04, 2014, 10:24:50 PM
I don't think early. My six digi /26\ and both two mils are flat with no "bulge". Not sure about 3 mils or letters. Hey LC, that 6 mil you just got have a bulge?
Nope, he is referring to (early 9m)..... which is the only place (so far) we have seen this feature. Need too be looking at the late 8m carbines.
Bah you Sino-Syrian weenies! When were you going to tell me about this?! chuckles1 (Actually I vaguely remember you guys discussing the bulge a long time ago!) You're going to give me a coronary one of these days, making me think I've missed something as big and noticable as that... stop1
Here's the highest 9 mil I've yet seen just because it's fresh on my mind and I just catalogued it on the CPU. Spike Bayo, short lug just like it should be. thumb1
Too bad bubba got to the receiver cover on this particular one.
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/9218138_receiver.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/9218138_right_center.jpg)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q647/jelucer/Chinese/9218138_gas_tube.jpg)
You didnt find it very interesting if I recall..... ;)