Picked this refurbed M59 off the rack at the LGS last week, and it was love at first sight.
The Yugoslavians used elm, walnut, oak, etc. on their Mausers, and this is obviously a relatively early SKS, so I'm not surprised that stock making blanks other than elm were occasionally used. I believe it's walnut that's been flat sawn from a sizable log, notice the cathedral grain pattern, and the grain can be seen running straight along the bottom of the stock with rings that are over 1/4 inch wide, healthy tree. It could be some other hardwood I'm not familiar with that has grain similar to walnut, regardless, it sure isn't your typical elm. I think I might propose to this Serbian beauty :o rofl
(https://image.ibb.co/dfVkdx/left_1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/noL7rH)
(https://image.ibb.co/gPMmkc/left_2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jzf1Jx)
(https://image.ibb.co/eH2sQc/left_3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/djRK5c)
(https://image.ibb.co/ivTMJx/left_4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cGyz5c)
(https://image.ibb.co/kG3XQc/left_5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g99iWH)
(https://image.ibb.co/bV3MJx/right_1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/faETyx)
(https://image.ibb.co/iaLU5c/right_2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f11DWH)
(https://image.ibb.co/i5WfBH/right_3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mfqwkc)
(https://image.ibb.co/irwfBH/right_4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nyqU5c)
(https://image.ibb.co/g2H95c/right_5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kQdtWH)
(https://image.ibb.co/hdY5dx/SN_mag.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jxRQdx)
(https://image.ibb.co/iASyyx/SN_rec_bc.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fTQkdx)
(https://image.ibb.co/hwXnrH/SN_stock.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cfAJyx)
(https://image.ibb.co/iEXLBH/SN_tg.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hhxnrH)
(https://image.ibb.co/mW8hQc/1_TRZ_stock.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fTTSrH)
(https://image.ibb.co/jY4NQc/BK_stock.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f31fBH)
(https://image.ibb.co/iSitWH/CAI_import_mark.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hHGDWH)
(https://image.ibb.co/iESnrH/hg_part_no.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kvkJyx)
(https://image.ibb.co/ffUHrH/rear_sight_leaf.jpg) (https://ibb.co/i16K5c)
Whoa.... You found a Teak stock!!!! :o
Whoa!!
He went there.... He really went down that path.
I mean... Teak... Uhm really.. I could see maybe artic mahogany maybe... Maybe eastern European coconut.... But teak.. nea1 we have had that discussion 498,732 times
I'll help you out P32... Send that to me.. I will study that fine specimen and let you know at some point..after I have my way with it..
Seriously..it looks alot like my dark wood M59.. can I have it??
Quote from: Greasemonkey on February 04, 2018, 08:48:15 PM
Seriously..it looks alot like my dark wood M59.. can I have it??
The stock is in the mail thumb1 chuckles1
Nice get thumb1
A few more pics.
The grain visible on the bottom of the stock shows clearly that the log was flatsawn.
(https://image.ibb.co/fC7Sac/bottom_bayo.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hW1nac)
(https://image.ibb.co/eOyN8x/bottom_trigger_guard.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f1YB1H)
Tiger striping is pronounced on the top of the wood, hidden by the handguard and a hint of it elsewhere.
(https://image.ibb.co/cNz7ac/top_tiger_stripe.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gib9ox)
(https://image.ibb.co/jLRaTx/bottom_mag.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ivY0vc)
I like the wood that your stock was made from, whatever that would be! My "C" series M59 refurb is C-38861, so 2,750 rifles later than yours. The wood that my stock is made from looks a lot different than yours. Not sure if that means anything. Some of these stocks would be great looking if we could refinish them to their original glory. But not going to do it, though. :)
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/YugoslavM-59SKSAlbanianSKSStock075.jpg)
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/YugoslavM-59SKSAlbanianSKSStock108.jpg)
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/YugoslavM-59SKSAlbanianSKSStock107-Copy.jpg)
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/YugoslavM-59SKSAlbanianSKSStock106-Copy.jpg)
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/YugoslavM-59SKSAlbanianSKSStock068.jpg)
The M59/66A1's that I have don't seem to have the more interesting wood like these M59's. How many types of wood did the Yugoslav rifles get fitted with?
Very nice acquisition Phos! My local gun shops just don't have anything in the way of SKS, or milsurp, in general. I keep looking though.
firstchoice
Quote from: firstchoice on February 05, 2018, 05:43:40 AM
I like the wood that your stock was made from, whatever that would be! My "C" series M59 refurb is C-38861, so 2,750 rifles later than yours. The wood that my stock is made from looks a lot different than yours. Not sure if that means anything. Some of these stocks would be great looking if we could refinish them to their original glory. But not going to do it, though. :)
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/YugoslavM-59SKSAlbanianSKSStock075.jpg)
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/YugoslavM-59SKSAlbanianSKSStock108.jpg)
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/YugoslavM-59SKSAlbanianSKSStock107-Copy.jpg)
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/YugoslavM-59SKSAlbanianSKSStock106-Copy.jpg)
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/YugoslavM-59SKSAlbanianSKSStock068.jpg)
The M59/66A1's that I have don't seem to have the more interesting wood like these M59's. How many types of wood did the Yugoslav rifles get fitted with?
Very nice acquisition Phos! My local gun shops just don't have anything in the way of SKS, or milsurp, in general. I keep looking though.
firstchoice
Mine is about 3000 after yours, and seems to be the same type of wood, sawn the same way. Mine appears to have an amber shellac vs the garnet yours appears to sport though...and much less of it left.
It seems as if they took a different approach to every tree they encountered maximizing board feet in ways that created some very neat grain patterns. Unfortunately, it seems by luck of the grain, some seem more prone to cracking than other nationalities tend to. I haven't seen one cut quite like Pho's beauty here.
I just feel lucky to have one, local shops are not milsurp rich. Mine sat for nearly two years after I had seen it before I could pick it up. I must be fortunate to live in a SKS collector area that is not highly populated. I still haven't been able to bring myself to clean the cosmoline out of it yet. I just look at her...all sloppy. I am sure I will soon though...she deserves it.
Beautiful acquisition there Phos32. Let me know if you need a proper cleaning kit for it...I have a couple spare Yugo kits.
Beautiful gun man!!
Quote from: firstchoice on February 05, 2018, 05:43:40 AM
I like the wood that your stock was made from, whatever that would be! My "C" series M59 refurb is C-38861, so 2,750 rifles later than yours. The wood that my stock is made from looks a lot different than yours. Not sure if that means anything. Some of these stocks would be great looking if we could refinish them to their original glory. But not going to do it, though. :)
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/YugoslavM-59SKSAlbanianSKSStock075.jpg)
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/YugoslavM-59SKSAlbanianSKSStock108.jpg)
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/YugoslavM-59SKSAlbanianSKSStock107-Copy.jpg)
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/YugoslavM-59SKSAlbanianSKSStock106-Copy.jpg)
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/firstchoice14/YugoslavM-59SKSAlbanianSKSStock068.jpg)
The M59/66A1's that I have don't seem to have the more interesting wood like these M59's. How many types of wood did the Yugoslav rifles get fitted with?
Very nice acquisition Phos! My local gun shops just don't have anything in the way of SKS, or milsurp, in general. I keep looking though.
firstchoice
Thanks for posting pictures of yours.
I think yours may be the same type of wood. It's likely just from a different part of the log. The use of the
flatsawn technique is the most efficient use of the log, and I'm sure efficient use of scarce resources was the main interest of 1950's to 1960's Yugoslavia. My stock came from a cut at the edge of the log but the angle of the grain will increase from nearly 0 degrees all the way to 90 degrees and then back to nearly 0 degrees as they slice boards off of the log, so this creates a lot of different grain patterns. I think the wood looks a lot like walnut to me in some characteristics, but not in others, so I'm not certain what type of wood it is. The Yugoslavians definitely used walnut earlier on their Mausers, especially the pre-WWII Mausers, but like everywhere else in Europe,
Juglans regia, aka English walnut, became harder to come by as the continent lurched into and through WWII.
Perhaps they all are elm stocks and they were just finished differently earlier in production. The wood is darker and the surface is a lot smoother on these stocks than on the typical reddish-blonde elm stocks that I've seen used before and after these C-block examples, so I lean strongly toward it being a different wood than elm.
Yeah, slim pickings here too. I don't see many SKSs in my LGS, and when I do see them, they have often been poorly treated (e.g., there's a bubba'd Chinese in a Russian stock with a mag well chiseled by a dull-toothed beaver and a 20 round mag sitting there now). My other M59s, LBs or standard, were all acquired from Dan's, as this is the first M59 I've ever seen locally.
Quote from: Justin Hell on February 05, 2018, 07:20:22 AM
Mine is about 3000 after yours, and seems to be the same type of wood, sawn the same way. Mine appears to have an amber shellac vs the garnet yours appears to sport though...and much less of it left.
It seems as if they took a different approach to every tree they encountered maximizing board feet in ways that created some very neat grain patterns. Unfortunately, it seems by luck of the grain, some seem more prone to cracking than other nationalities tend to. I haven't seen one cut quite like Pho's beauty here.
I just feel lucky to have one, local shops are not milsurp rich. Mine sat for nearly two years after I had seen it before I could pick it up. I must be fortunate to live in a SKS collector area that is not highly populated. I still haven't been able to bring myself to clean the cosmoline out of it yet. I just look at her...all sloppy. I am sure I will soon though...she deserves it.
Beautiful acquisition there Phos32. Let me know if you need a proper cleaning kit for it...I have a couple spare Yugo kits.
I don't think mine is shellacked. It doesn't have the look or feel of shellac. I agree that they probably focused on maximizing board feet. More on that in my response to FC's post.
Hey thanks for the offer. I was fortunate that this one came with a cleaning kit in the stock.
That's amazing that an SKS sat in a shop for 2 years! I generally stop in at my LGS weekly just to see if they've received any new consignment or traded milsurps :))
got to get out more to my LGS, nice one. thumb1
P32... when I went through the whole "teak" mess.. I found there are at 3 very common species of elm in that area.. all have slightly different characteristics. There were mention of others, I guess sub variants, hybrids and other species exist in Serbia/general area, but these 3 seemed to be the most common and wide spread. One other note I had was... given the size and girth of some trees, the heart wood, which was typically darker and reddish in color was used for certain uses, while the lighter colored outer wood was sawn away and used in other items.
The most common ones I found were..
1. Field Elm... or English Elm...Ulmus minor Atinia this seemed to be the most common spoke of elm tree.. but Dutch elm disease really hurt the population, this was an on going disease during Titos reign of power... also this is called Carpathian Elm when in burl form
2. Wych Elm... or Scotch Elm.... Ulmus glabra.. this was another that suffered through the Dutch elm disease, although not as heavily devastated, also a fairly common choice for woodworking.
3. European white elm... or Fluttering Elm.. Ulmus laevis.... here in the US, they call it Russian Elm.. this one is deemed a pretty much useless tree for wood working use... not even really favored for something as simple as firewood. Just used mainly for shade or for it's looks.
These dark different stocks also don't seem quite as common as the lighter stocks on the M59. I have wondered if they were not mostly replaced as time and refurbs happened. My stock is in almost the same serial range, the late 30k range...the rifle is no where close..it's an earlier "C" in the 24k range.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/d0nack4hlnmyk6u/SAM_3214.JPG?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/5xhyxzrjvik1617/SAM_3220.JPG?dl=0)
The same M59 has the later style hand guard wood.. gives a cool contrast between the types of wood.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/ujvhj4a88mscutw/SAM_3216.JPG?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/cdr1ugpz0kauh6d/SAM_3221.JPG?dl=0)
Me thinks this simply depends on the way in which the log is cut. I can make a reference picture and explain further if that would help.
I've always been of the opinion that the early Yugos and late Yugos had different wood types. I guess they could just be sawn differently, but look at this stock from my M59. Looks more similar to FC's than it does to P32s or GMs.
Lots of white between the grain:
(https://image.ibb.co/mg3GMH/44731_stock.jpg)
Looking at a right angle to the sides around the TG, the grain is pretty wavy but still quite distinct in the light vs dark areas. Maybe this is also present on the darker finished guns but just not as apparent?
(https://image.ibb.co/egv2vc/44731_trigger_group.jpg)
Thanks GM. Yes, it could be a different species, or variety (genetically isolated sub-population) of Elm.
The grain exhibited is dependent on so many things. The species, sub-population of the tree, even within a small region. The climate, drought, wind (stress wood), elevation, etc. The cut as mentioned by many now, as well as whether it is sapwood or heartwood.
Finally, the finish is very different on these. Much smoother than the typical Yugoslavian stock, and that may have brought out subtle visual variations in the wood. It could be as specific as the lumber for these M59 stocks in the 30K serial range came from a harvest of a particular lot of trees.
I agree RM, the Protokol M59/66A1s definitely had a different lumber selection if not different wood. Very fine grain without a lot of figuring. Chosen for uniformity of appearance I gather.
DNA analysis would be the most definitive (a bit trickier with wood than other biological tissues that have a high proportion of living cells), but end-grain analysis by an expert botanist or forester would probably be almost as good. Same issue as the early vs. later Chinese Type 56 stocks.
Regardless, it's purdy chuckles1
The difference in grain between the 2 styles..
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/ko4kt32fu5hr92l/SAM_1598_zpsrh6soqgd.jpg?dl=0)
I can say the Mausers are different... M24/47
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/4qiroc9e2f0u132/HPIM0909.JPG?dl=0)
This one has the elm hand guard, like my M59.....and a lot of ugly, but I can not say for certain the stock is elm.. M48B
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/q3fw6atuhodk06o/HPIM1157.JPG?dl=0)
My M48A is fairly close to the SKS as I have...but too many differences to claim its the same..biggest thing is, elm doesn't usually tiger stripe. This may be the walnut P32 spoke of.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/cddmnw03mxrs38i/HPIM1123.JPG?dl=0)
My M48BO looks about the closest to RM's M59 stock in my opinion :o This is plausible...due to this being the last of Yugoslavia's Mauser production...ending in 1965.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/vb9yg7qioca0z92/SAM_0262_zpse70fdcfc.jpg?dl=0)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/iora7fg9vsle58l/SAM_0261_zpsb494fe3f.jpg?dl=0)
I have no clue... really... I'm not a woodologist. But they is purdy thumb1
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on February 05, 2018, 03:52:31 PM
Me thinks this simply depends on the way in which the log is cut. I can make a reference picture and explain further if that would help.
I agree LC the way it's cut makes a huge difference but I'm going with P32 I think it's different wood....what ever happened to the wood samples you were going to send in, did that happen?
Quote from: Phosphorus32 on February 05, 2018, 01:15:18 PM
Quote from: Justin Hell on February 05, 2018, 07:20:22 AM
Mine is about 3000 after yours, and seems to be the same type of wood, sawn the same way. Mine appears to have an amber shellac vs the garnet yours appears to sport though...and much less of it left.
It seems as if they took a different approach to every tree they encountered maximizing board feet in ways that created some very neat grain patterns. Unfortunately, it seems by luck of the grain, some seem more prone to cracking than other nationalities tend to. I haven't seen one cut quite like Pho's beauty here.
I just feel lucky to have one, local shops are not milsurp rich. Mine sat for nearly two years after I had seen it before I could pick it up. I must be fortunate to live in a SKS collector area that is not highly populated. I still haven't been able to bring myself to clean the cosmoline out of it yet. I just look at her...all sloppy. I am sure I will soon though...she deserves it.
Beautiful acquisition there Phos32. Let me know if you need a proper cleaning kit for it...I have a couple spare Yugo kits.
I don't think mine is shellacked. It doesn't have the look or feel of shellac. I agree that they probably focused on maximizing board feet. More on that in my response to FC's post.
Hey thanks for the offer. I was fortunate that this one came with a cleaning kit in the stock.
That's amazing that an SKS sat in a shop for 2 years! I generally stop in at my LGS weekly just to see if they've received any new consignment or traded milsurps :))
The shop is located in a very difficult to see and get to location in a section of town called Malfunction Junction. They have no real name as far as I can tell, just a modestly sized sign that says GUNS. rofl
They had FIVE SKSs when I went in, a pristine 59/66a1 and a few Chinese...I think it is primarily consignment, and someone who invested in SKSs is getting out of them.
There was a hard luck 59/66a1 there with the launcher removed but retaining the ladder....listed as Russian, I corrected them. It is priced $125 more than I got the intact M59 for. ???
Quote from: CARBINE on February 06, 2018, 12:18:11 AM
I agree LC the way it's cut makes a huge difference but I'm going with P32 I think it's different wood....what ever happened to the wood samples you were going to send in, did that happen?
Hey Tony! Yes that's still the plan. I'm actually one step closer to sending them out:
(https://image.ibb.co/fKaQ6H/IMG_6937.jpg)
These SOB's are *hard*. Band saw with a new blade bogged down halfway through the first. Tried a sawzall next and that was a hilarious failure. Finally made a jig to hold them and ran them through my dad's table saw with a 15" carbide blade to get them cut in half. I'll get a post started tracking the progress of this adventure soon enough. I've got some interesting observations on them already. thumb1
Dang, are those both Chinese stocks? What's the source serial on them? They're radically different.
Quote from: Phosphorus32 on February 09, 2018, 12:45:54 PM
Dang, are those both Chinese stocks? What's the source serial on them? They're radically different.
The top one looks like it might be the hunk-a-Russian stock I sent him. :o Other looks like Yugo elm maybe.
RM... Please let me know how you are preparing yours to be sent. Are you now going to reduce them down to a solid portion square chunk?
I need to know so I can so the ones I have the same way.
Also... I would suggest taking a pic and posting each one cut down the middle and opened up like this for future reference.
Already working on that post. thumb1
The cuts for the tool kit among different stocks are interesting!!!
Quote from: running-man on February 10, 2018, 01:57:28 PM
Already working on that post. thumb1
The cuts for the tool kit among different stocks are interesting!!!
Wouldn't you wanna wait to include all these stocks I have for this effort? Or are we not interested in those anymore?
I can only do five per calendar year. Already have four. Definitely want you to send whatever samples you have as well. thumb1
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on February 10, 2018, 10:27:40 AM
RM... Please let me know how you are preparing yours to be sent. Are you now going to reduce them down to a solid portion square chunk?
I need to know so I can so the ones I have the same way.
Duh. Totally missed that post. Wiil most certainly let you know. thumb1
I don't know if you were going to submit them to FPL, because they're now limited to 3 per private US citizen per year.
"Please note: Effective October 1, 2017 the Center for Wood Anatomy Research (CWAR) will accept wood identification submissions only from private US citizens, with an annual limit of 3 specimens per household. Persons in need of more than three identifications per year, or businesses, non-profits, or other institutions in need of identifications, should engage the services of a private wood identification consultant or seek help from a local university or other source of expertise."
https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/research/centers/woodanatomy/wood_idfactsheet.php
Crap
Phosphorus, I know it is not your style but I would be tempted to clean that stock down to its natural color and then finish with true oil. Anyway congrats on a beautiful find. Definitely a keeper.
Charlie
Quote from: likemeasks on February 22, 2018, 05:30:51 PM
Phosphorus, I know it is not your style but I would be tempted to clean that stock down to its natural color and then finish with true oil. Anyway congrats on a beautiful find. Definitely a keeper.
Charlie
:o
I kinda threwup a little at the thought.. I don't understand the tru oil fetish.
Their the baddest looking SkS out there ! The darker the better Phos :) I can smell it from here. Love shooting my M59's in the warm sun when I feel the need to get some brown cheek.. Nice looking soldier you have there buddy.. Perfect amount of scar tissue also thumb1