Posted awhile ago, was wandering if anything new popped up since. It is I.O.Inc. Happy days all.
(http://preview.ibb.co/dDxp3a/IMG_0016.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iUJJwv)
(http://preview.ibb.co/jhQqbv/IMG_0019.jpg) (http://ibb.co/b7A1ia)
(http://preview.ibb.co/dXEDUF/IMG_0020.jpg) (http://ibb.co/f5qnpF)
(http://preview.ibb.co/gLk93a/IMG_0021.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dNH09F)
(http://preview.ibb.co/ionYUF/IMG_0023.jpg) (http://ibb.co/i3DU3a)
maybe. :o
Hi Ike!
Not much has transpired on the letter guns since your last posts. Likely a letter G gun though there is a minute possibility that it is a letter L. I suspect G for all the reasons LC outlined in your previous posts plus one more important piece of data: the IO and TGI guns have a pretty nice looking std. bell curve shaped distribution that begins at very few letter Cs, touches a few more Ds and then goes through a much larger number of Es, tons of Fs, slightly less Hs, smaller number of Is, Js & Ks The backwards "J" guns are quite numerous and really seem to fit in the G slot more than they would the L. One of these days I'll chart it so everyone can see it in visual terms. I think it's pretty convincing we're looking at G's and not Ls, but I guess anything is possible. dntknw1
As-issued G's have small font and short safety cutouts on the stocks, this points to 1959 in my book whereas the large font/long safety cuts of other letter guns would point to either concurrently made in '59 or possibly pushed out into '60.
What he said.
If someone was to ask me - wow what kind of gun is that?. - what would I say, just so I don't sound ignorant, nea1
A chinese letter series type 56 carbine from circa 1959/60
Nice, now if someone were to ask how much it's worth, I know u haven't seen it , it's in good shape, good barrel, '$500 or am I really ignorant. Thanks for the answers....
If you've still got the original stock, bayonet and magazine-- fair market value is about $350-400 depending on overall condition.
With only the aftermarket setup, they're often a lot more difficult to move-- so it's hard to tell...but probably about $300-$350.
Thanks, I'll keep it for the war.
Thanks Running-Man you said,
One of these days I'll chart it so everyone can see it in visual terms.
Once that happens maybe it will become more clear. It at least seems to be something that is somewhat unusual/rare, that makes it special.
Thanks again, semper fi
more markings on my M56, bolt number matched the rest, anyone know what these mean?
(http://preview.ibb.co/gvL6RR/IMG_0208.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mwGfmR)
(http://preview.ibb.co/dE4Bt6/IMG_0209.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gBXLmR)
(http://preview.ibb.co/cgYFLm/IMG_0210.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mLFUfm)
(http://preview.ibb.co/eDnLmR/IMG_0211.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mHAHY6)
(http://preview.ibb.co/jMVUfm/IMG_0212.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cuzcY6)
Test pic
You mean the #s 31?
The 31's are barrel/receiver match numbers.
I don't know that that is the original barrel. I've never seen (or noticed is maybe the better word) match numbers with such clearly different fonts like that. I'll have to check my files and see what I can turn up. Pretty cool!
Quote from: running-man on October 28, 2017, 05:22:59 PM
The 31's are barrel/receiver match numbers.
I don't know that that is the original barrel. I've never seen (or noticed is maybe the better word) match numbers with such clearly different fonts like that. I'll have to check my files and see what I can turn up. Pretty cool!
hmmm...
I think most if not all of mine have different fonts. Or, I know for a fact that several of mine have distinctly different barrel/receiver fonts and have just assumed this was standard on all of them.
Kool BB! thumb1. Definitely sonething I've never noticed before. Hey I get to learn too, right?! :)
Most of what I pass on to newer collectors on other forums (and some longtimers with an open mind) comes from this website or chinesesks.weebly.
So...thanks, i'll take whatever credit there is left... which ain't much.
OK1
Ill bite.
Why/how would fonts be different? Wouldn't this be applied at the same time?
So the 31s indicate my barrel is original, then what about the small markings just under and above the 31 on the barrel?
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on October 28, 2017, 10:03:42 PM
Ill bite.
Why/how would fonts be different? Wouldn't this be applied at the same time?
Your guess is as good as mine. I would say if the barrel and receiver have different fonts (as they clearly do as shown below), then we have a couple scenarios I can think of off the top of my head:
1) They were not stamped at the same time by the technician who headspaced the gun. Perhaps the receivers and barrels were numbered separately and matched at assembly from their respective crates of 36 units?
2) They were stamped together but the guns with different fonts have all been rebarreled. (How likely is this?)
Look at some of these examples:
Low ghost (major differences in the 3's):
(https://image.ibb.co/jBfkO6/15865_receiver2.jpg)
Mid ghost (differences in the 2, though could be explained by the round curvature of the barrel lug):
(https://image.ibb.co/nzsMwR/59736_left_lug2.jpg)
Mid ghost: (inconclusive, appears similar)
(https://image.ibb.co/eSU1wR/66869_receiver.jpg)
High ghost: (inconclusive, appears similar)
(https://image.ibb.co/d9Y5O6/147922_receiver.jpg)
Letter series (vastly different 4's):
(https://image.ibb.co/ksPOAm/E4211_receiver.jpg)
'50 refurbished Russian (inconclusive though those 6's look pretty similar to me):
(https://image.ibb.co/eQy5O6/249_receiver.jpg)
'54 as issued Russian (I believe these are the same stamp):
(https://image.ibb.co/gaqDAm/AO5252_left_lug.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/bYKUi6/AO5252_left_center.jpg)
My theory is, a factory make receivers, boxes and boxes of them. Someone takes the receivers and puts numbers 1-99 (or whatever) on them all day long.
Someone else has a job of taking receivers out of the box on his work station and finding a barrel that fits just right, when he does he stamps it to match and dumps it in the wheelbarrow going to the next work station (or on the conveyor belt or whatever) there might be 10 guys putting receivers to barrels, all with their own stamps set.
The barrels were all numbered after they were fitted to the receiver, imo as the numbers are all in line with the lining up line.
crazyp1
This whole paired numbers bs has irritated me since day 1. Why do it in the first place?? Were they intending to later strip off all the barrels, mix them up, then put them back together again for craps and giggles??
The only reason I would think to remove the barrel is to replace it, and in that scenario you would be tossing the barrel so you dont even need a number on it.
My current theory of choice is that these numbers are fitment numbers used in the same manor as the barrel numbers for (what we think) to match up size wise to the RSB, gas block, stock ferrule, and FSB.
Basically it would represent a dimension of the threaded barrel socket of the receiver and visa/versa the threaded male shank and lug of the barrel. (lets say) the numbers represent a fraction of a millimeter. In this case the highest number observed would be .36mm which is just about .014 thousands of an inch. I think its entirely possible to have a maximum tolerance variation across production of .014" or less.
That being said when a worker milled a barrel shank, a dimension was measured. If the perfect target size is say 40mm and its over that number by .09mm .... its marked with a 9.
You do the same thing with the receiver, you can literally have barrels and receivers marked in bins ready to pull for a perfect match. I would assume this measurement would be the barrel shank to mating flat so that the pair will index on the first attempt rather then having a worker failing to index barrels all day.
Put it this way.... RM may back me up on this one.
If you DONT do this during the production...
A: You have a high failure rate of indexing barrels
B: You have to mill the receiver face on nearly EVERY single receiver until index is achieved.
If B, welp.. then you end up with a LARGE tolerance range from gun to gun on the back end of the bolt requiring major differences in length for headspacing.... more time and milling and a VERY LOW probability of interchangeability.
No.... you do as I described in my previous post and avoid ALL of that.
You absolutely HAVE to devise a way to properly index lug flats and achieve consistent insertion depth into the receiver to ultimately save time, minimize drastic head spacing lengths of the bolt, achieve interchangeability, or at least reduce adjusting requirements of the bolt to head space.
Well, i like that theory too.
measure the parts, stamp a number, assembly monkey just has to find 2 of the same number and match them.
I wonder if they were on the table face down and you took turns flipping them over?
That would explain the limited range of numbers nicely as well.
Turns flipping?
The parts would be in bins labeled with corresponding number.
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on October 30, 2017, 10:12:53 PM
Turns flipping?
I think he was making a joke 8)
Like a game where you had to find the matching barrel dance2
Yeah... no flipping. The point of numbering and bin filing is to prevent flipping.