Hey guys,
Purchased an F series from Classic a few months ago all the numbers matched except the bolt. Due to that I had to send it off to Murray to get the head space corrected on it as it wouldn't close on a live round, but finally got it to the range yesterday. It shot well.. however I had to move the front sight post all the way to the left and still had a few inches to go to hit zero at 50 yards, however since it was so far over I couldn't adjust elevation. I put a Williams peep sight on the rear that allows for windage and elevation. So I moved the front sight back a bit so I could adjust for elevation and started working with the rear sight for zero. I finally got it close but I had to move the Williams sight quite a bit as well to get there. But not sure I have enough adjustment to get 100 yard zero. I am trying to figure out now if the rear gas block or the front sight is canted, to me it "looks" like the rear gas block might be canted a bit, but I am not sure. Is there an easier way to tell for sure? I took a few photos with the gun straight and from the receiver cover down the barrel, maybe you guys can see something. From what I understand canting can be fixed. I can't do it.. but maybe I can find a smith that can. Below are the pics.. thoughts appreciated.
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/005-2.jpg)
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/004-3.jpg)
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/003-2.jpg)
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/002-1.jpg)
[imghttp://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/001.jpg[/img]
If I need different pics or something from a different angle that will help let me know.
Also.. I decided as a test a few minutes ago to put it all back together and use my bore sight to see where it lined up, I had to move the front sight post to the right, almost back to the middle and then lower it to get the bore sight dot to line up with just the top part of the front sight. I wasn't 50 yards however would that be a good indication that I was going something incorrect? It makes me wonder as I had to move the sight back. Or is using a bore sight for open sites pointless?
I am not sure how to test for barrel straightness so I am not sure if the barrel is bent a bit or not, it doesn't appear to be. Maybe I need to go back to the range and start at 25 yards instead of 50 and then move out.
It's hard for me to say with any degree of certainty but it does look like something MAY be out of line. If I were in this situation agrace I think I would try printing at 25 yards (or less) then move out to 50 if all is okay and see how that goes. Then you will be able to tell better by what you have to do with your sights as you increase the distance. If trying from that angle "goes south" then I would execute plan B...go to a Gunsmith!
I don't think it's pointless to bore site with only factory sights, I've done it and know others that have. Actually you can get surprisingly close if you keep your distance down to about 25 yds.
Whatever the problem is I hope it's something simple and cheap to fix!
Thanks Danny,
I think that is what I am going to do. Also in messing with it some more I discovered the rifle would move forward a bit in the stock, as well as up and down when using the heel of my hand on the trigger guard. I used some corking to bed things a bit and it is snug as can be now. That may have also played a role in it. At any rate won't know for a week or so till I get back to the range.
thanks
agrace
I hope it works out okay for ya agrace, let us know of course. Not to be critical of your attempt at bedding but the cork may not be a good choice. The recoil may beat that cork all to pieces.
AK / SKS zeroing target at...
Pokin' Holes (http://pokin-holes.blogspot.com/)
Agrace.... definitely try again at 25 yards. See whats going on and adjust. If you run out of adjustment or the post elevation is compromised by being drifted too far left/right, you may have either a canted from/rear block. Even though there are pins through the rear and front blocks, its still possible for them to take a bump that knocks it off center a tad. Adam had one like this and I had him smack it with a rubber mallet a few times in the corrective direction. Right as rain again.... just food for thought.
Thanks guys. I am going to try 25 next time I make it to the range and see what I can do. I will keep you guys posted
Thanks
agrace
Just for S&G---what are you resting the rifle on when you fire it???
I am shooting on the rest in the image below for a rifle. Before I shot my SKS on this one, I was shooting my Tikka 30/06 to sight it in for deer season.
That is not my pistol :)
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/riflerest.jpg)
Did you get your sights figured out ag? BTW, hard to tell but the FSB does look canted. I have taken a rubber mallet the FSB in the past to fix a canted front sight. Hold the SKS sideways with the direction you want the top of the FSB to go facing down while the barrel is supported on something solid. Smack the top of the FSB with the rubber mallet then check for alignment. Also, did you check to make sure the barel isn't bent? I've had a couple of those over the years as well.
As an FYI(in case you haven't fixed it yet and didn't already know) this is a good rule of thumb for sighting in the irons on an SKS. All measurements and incrementations are approximate but close. YMMV
This will be with the rear sight in its lowest position, or at the 100yds mark. After completion of sighting in as below you should be able to set the rear sight into the battle position and hit your target at 300yds, although it should really all be in meters.
@ 25yds POI should be 1" low of POA(bullseye)
@ 45 yds POI should be bullseye(50yds would be 1/8"-1/4" high)
@ 75yds POI should be 1" high
@100 yds POI should be bullseye again
@ 125yds POI should be 1"-1.5" low
Thanks GG. You actually replied at the best time. I have finally gotten some time to head back to the range today and work with it a bit more. So I will be taking the below with me and giving it a try.
What is a good way to check to see if the barrel is bent? I have limited tools etc. Just from looking down it I don't see anything, but I know that is not a proper test. But hopefully I will know more about it this afternoon when I get back from the range.
thanks
agrace
Quote from: agrace on November 08, 2014, 10:00:34 AM
Thanks GG. You actually replied at the best time. I have finally gotten some time to head back to the range today and work with it a bit more. So I will be taking the below with me and giving it a try.
What is a good way to check to see if the barrel is bent? I have limited tools etc. Just from looking down it I don't see anything, but I know that is not a proper test. But hopefully I will know more about it this afternoon when I get back from the range.
thanks
agrace
Actually you can tell a lot from looking down the barrel, but you have to do it from the receiver end.
If you strip the rifle down to just the barrelled action(don't need to mess with the pressed on stuff on the barrel obviously), Look down the barrel from the rear of the receiver so you can get a clear view. You may want to steady it in a vise with the jaws padded or something to get a good steady view. Basically the muzzle end opening should look symmetric in respect to the chamber end in a circle within a circle type view. If the inner circle, the muzzle end, looks off center to the outer circle, the chamber end, then the barrel is bent.
If the barrel is bent it can be cold bent back into position with an hydraulic press without disturbing the temper of the metal. You may or may not need to remove the pressed on parts on the barrel depending on where it is bent.
I had an M59/66 that was bent so bad you could only see about 1/4 of the muzzle end hole because someone had run over the front of it. I did end up cutting off the front 2" of the barrel, but was able to straighten the rest out then re-crown the muzzle. Turned out to be one of my more accurate SKSs. I sold it to a friend here in KC who still has it and hunts with it every year.
+1
GG is a wealth of knowledge and has dont this sorta thing first-hand.
I swear thats a canted RSB or FSB Im seeing..
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/003-2.jpg)
Yup.. that is what I keep getting my eye drawn back to.. the rear sight base being canted a bit to the right. However I need to just get the thing in the vise, take some get do as GG suggested and then if need be take a few more pictures from that angle and see. Unless my range trip proves it was me not adjusting the sights correctly all along.
thanks guys
agrace
Hey ag, if you get a chance, take a pic from just a tad further away and coming down over the action just a little bit more than the pics you currently have up. That might help in the focus and the view of alignment.
IIRC there has been a discussion in years past(4-5 maybe) about canted RSBs particular to Yugo M59/66s. I think it was determined that the rear sight leaf tangs were coming in bent so the leaf ended up sitting crooked in the slot of the RSB. That couldn't be the case here as the leaf has been removed in the pics.
Oh, another thought, you can take a straight edge over the top of the action with the receiver cover in place. Lay it over the back center of the cover to the center of the FSB Globe then see how the rest of the action parts line up. You can also line it up to the center(left to right) of the bore. That will give another angle as to what is canted or bent.
Thanks guys.. I will see what I can do. I just got back from the range.. started at 25 yards and hit about 4 inches to the left and about an 3 inches high from the bullseye on a target like the below.
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/7052012211.jpg)
the bad news is I forgot to take my front sight tool with me, well it could have sworn it was in my range bag and it was not. So now the hunt is on for that. banghead1
However on my drive home I was thinking.. and this may be dumb so forgive me... if I got the windage adjusted correctly at 25 yards.. wouldn't windage stay close at 50 yards and further on? Not sure how much I would have to move the front post to the left at 25 yards to make up for the 4 inches.. but if it is not a lot then I may be okay. Unless at 50 I have to keep pushing it farther left. Don't know that just popped into my head. I am not the best with iron sights etc.
Think of it in terms of an angle because it is basically geometry. The farther out you go the larger the gap is between the lines of the angle. So, if you are at zero you will pretty much stay at zero. But, if you are off 1/2" to the left at 25 yds. as you go out you will be hitting farther to the left. For example at 100yds, if my math is correct, because it is 4 times the distance you would be 4 times off to the left. In this case it would be around 2".
That is why, when a firearm is not zero'd, it is so hard to get on paper and zero it in starting out at 100yds.
thanks GG.. that makes sense. I found my sight tool :o .. so I am going try and go out again tomorrow. But I will try and get some pictures like you mentioned below as well as checking the barrel for a bend using the method you explained.
Okay guys.. a few more pictures, I looked down the barrel thru the chamber as GG suggested and I don't see anything that would indicate a bend in the barrel. I don't know if the level idea I had by leveling the receiver and then moving to the rear sight base would show rear sight cant but thought I would try and and let you guys share your thoughts. If that is a good method then the rear sight base is canted to the right a bit. I look and see something different each time, one time it looks like everything is lined up as it should be and the next the rear sight base looks canted to the right a bit.. :). Thought I would throw in a pic of the crown of the rifle as well.
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/204.jpg)
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/205.jpg)
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/197.jpg)
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/199.jpg)
It could just be the leaf itself. I would try the level test on the base itself and then the leaf looking for a change. The block looks to be canted to the right a tiny bit, but Im not so sure its significant enough to cause any real issues not correctable at the fs adjustment. The crown itself looks fairly good.. no obvious issues that I can see.
I would do try to zero making adjustments at the post (now that you found your tool) and see just how much drift to one side it takes to get it centered left/right and then go from there.
Thanks.. here are the shots with the leaf up and out of the way. Does that help at all? Guess I will try to get back to the range tomorrow or Tuesday since I am off work.
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/208.jpg)
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/209.jpg)
Checking level that way could merely mean poor machining and have nothing to do with the base being out of time. The straight edge should show whether everything is at the 12 O'clock position or not. Not saying the level won't work, just that there can be some error in the former. I agree with LC to check the level on base and the leaf to look for change.
Having said all that, the more I look at all your pics the more it looks like the RSB is canted to the right slightly. Heck both front and rear could be off.
Another option for a cure would be to put a Tech sight on it, but if you don't want to mess with removing the cover pin then that would not work for you.
Yup.. I was thinking the same thing about the machining. I used an 18 inche ruler that I placed down in the sight notch and things seemed to line up correctly. At this point I am going to just get it back to the range with my adjustment tool which is now in my bag, and going forward will triple check to make sure it is there before leaving banghead1.
If I can't get it then I have a tech site I can put on it. However I also have a magwedge rail coming in the mail that I could put on and mount a scope. That could be a solution as well couldn't it? Either way I have to remove the pin.
definite solutions there, you can even switch between the two after the pin removal.
Put a live round down the barrel from the bore end. Take a pic and post it. I'd like to see what condition the barrel is in. If it's "shot-out", meaning worn out, it will never zero. It is possible, it isn't sight related at all, but worn out barrel related. It is also possible it is crown related. Are the lands still crisp and sharp? Just trying to cover all the bases.
Marcus
Quote from: 1mlt on November 09, 2014, 09:49:31 AM
Put a live round down the barrel from the bore end. Take a pic and post it. I'd like to see what condition the barrel is in. If it's "shot-out", meaning worn out, it will never zero. It is possible, it isn't sight related at all, but worn out barrel related. It is also possible it is crown related. Are the lands still crisp and sharp? Just trying to cover all the bases.
Marcus
+1
All good points.
here ya are guys.. I tried to get the best shots I could from the crown to see the rifling. My son has a much better camera so I may have him try to get some shots of the bore. I have also included the target I shot yesterday before I realized I didn't have my front sight tool. The two farthest to the left are aiming dead center of the bullseye with a 6:00 hold both sets at 25 yards. The other two were me aiming an inch or so to the right. They seemed to group good. Just too far to the left. At any rate.. let me know what you think.
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/002-2.jpg)
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/012.jpg)
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/011.jpg)
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/010.jpg)
thanks
agrace
If it were a bore/crown issue.... they would likely be all over the place. The fact that moving your poa DID change the poi indicates it a simple alignment issue. See if drifting the sight works like I was saying earlier.
Well guys..I am at a dilemma. I received my MagWedge rail mount today. Now I don't know if I want to install it now, before I get to the range to see if I can get the iron sights adjusted to zero the rifle. Or just throw the MagWedge on there, add a scope and be done with it and should I remove it in the future at some point, try and sight it in with the iron sights again.
thoughts?
I don't know about you agrace, but when there's a problem I can't figure out, it eats at me until I do…
If you're that way too, run the problem to ground before you add the scope mount! :)
Quote from: running-man on November 10, 2014, 01:13:05 PM
I don't know about you agrace, but when there's a problem I can't figure out, it eats at me until I do…
If you're that way too, run the problem to ground before you add the scope mount! :)
+1.....If it were mine I would solve this issue before doing anything else to it. If merely for the reason of not having to remember that it has this issue later on down the road.
yea :) .. I was leaning the same way. I want to know if I can get it zeroed with irons then go to the MagWedge if things are not lined up as they should be. Just wanted to get thoughts from you guys as well.
agrace
Agrace I echo the sentiments of the others. Hammer the issue til you resolve it!
Well guys, I got a chance to go back to the range today to try and see what I could do. I had to push the front sight post to the left to the point I could not adjust elevation. The more I look at this rifle the more I am convinced that the rear sight base is canted to the right. At this point I am going to try my tech sights or my magwedge rail and see if the group will tighten up. I am using a Williams peep sight on the rear sight base and a tech sight target front sight post. Below are my targets for today.
100 yards
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/003-3.jpg)
75 Yards
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/002-3.jpg)
50 yards
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/001-1.jpg)
Front sight post
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/005-3.jpg)
this is where I can see the rear sight base looking canted to the right. the bolt carrier is straight up and down. Sorry it is a bit blurry.
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/006-3.jpg)
thanks for looking
agrace
Get a rubber mallet and give it a whack or two.
Will do. I will see if I can get it to move any
welp.. I smacked it several good times.. nothing budged. I may just have to put this one back for a bit and send it off to Murray and see if he can do anything with it. Or try the tech site or the Magwedge to see if it will shoot well enough to warrant that.
thoughts?
Im still having trouble wrapping my head around this as a rsb cant to the right post drifted far left should be giving you a a far right poi. It looks to now be shooting pretty darn straight even though the post is drifted that far left. I may have a rifle or two with a good size drift in the front post also.
Its ultimately up to you
Thanks for all the help. Sorry for all the questions. I think I will just continue to shoot it get more used to it. Part of the issue as well is me expecting tight groups at 100 yards with this set up and 45 year old eyes :)
Just to ask a question :o This Max Wedge thingy, looks like it rests or uses the rear sight block in conjunction with the top cover pin, Ok I get it. But, what good is the mount if it is using the rear sight base, if the rear sight base is canted, wouldn't it affect the rail causing it to be miss adjusted, leading to the scope needing or possibly running out of adjustment. And, wouldn't that put you right back where you are now, no more adjustment..
Sorry, I'm not up to date on tacticool stuff, but inquiring minds want to know... thumb1 chuckles1
Rule #23- when a little love making hammer don't work, a 6lb mini sledge will just about always come through thumb1 chuckles1
Yup it would attach to the rear sight base. And I was thinking the same thing. It would be tilted as well so that may not work as expected either. But thought about trying it. Tech sights would eliminate the rear sight base. And to be honest me pounding on something makes me a bit nervous as I have torn up way more stuff than I have ever fixed. :). But also if the rsb does move will that movement not change the op rod channel ? Where it mind not be aligned with the barrel like it was?
I guess in my feeble mind, ??? if the rear sight block is canted, the the op-rod channel ain't straight to begin with. It may not much of an effect on it anyway, as I'm sure there is enough tolerance to allow for a few degrees plus or minus during assembly, yours may just be at the extreme end of the tolerance scale. So in a way, by setting it correctly, it should still work normally, the only difference is the sight is straight and the op rod hits a slightly different spot on the bolt carrier.
Agree. It is working now. Sorry for the dumb questions, I am just not as mechanically inclined as others and don't want to screw up my rifle. I will continue to look at it. Thanks for all the help
The only dumb question is an unasked question thumb1
And as far as being mechanically inclined, its a curse, as much as a gift. chuckles1
Agrace, I'm with LC on this one. Trying to wrap my head around it hitting left. If your RSB is canted right then that pushes the muzzle right and you should need to push the front sight right to bring the muzzle left.
In your case you are suspecting the RSB is canted right, but you are pushing the front sight left which brings the muzzle to the right.
Seems to me there has to be something else going on here. With the above understanding, if you push your RSB to the left to get it timed up properly then that, by design, should move your POI even further left and you are already out of adjustment on your front sight.
Did you ever try my straight edge suggestion or take a pic from over top? A yard stick will work as a straight edge. Lay it flat with the edge of it on center over the receiver cover then either over center on the globe of the FSB or over center of the bore. For the pic take it far enough back that everything is in focus, but close enough and with hi-resolution so that we can see everything clearly.
I am starting to suspect the barrel was not quite machined right and was installed at an ever so slight angle. If this is the case they may have purposely canted the RSB to the right to line up the sights enough to shove it out the door.
If that is the case when lining everything up with the straight edge the line will be off. Even just on the cover the line will be off from rear to front.
BTW, you can also use a string running tight over the action.
Lastly, as mentioned, if the RSB is canted for whatever reason I would be suspicious of the magwedge lining up properly for use of a scope. The Techsight T-200 may be you best option. Having said that, you won't really know on the scope until you try it. If your scope of choice has enough wind-age adjustment then it will work, but if my suspicions prove correct then the scope will be mounted slightly off center. Kind of like your AK style Russian scope systems.
Thanks guys, I agree. It doesn't make sense to me either. And sorry if I am making this more difficult due to my lack of knowledge. It may be me, I am trying to use a Williams peep sight on the RSB and I may be causing all of it using that. However, I did tie a string around the fsb and then took it back and wrapped it around the receiver cover lock down lever. Measured from both sides to make sure it was centered there and then moved up and string looked straight down the barrel. From the below it does appear everything is in line, except the sting is a bit to the left of the rsb.
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/012-1.jpg)
"What if" time :) What if you just try to install the Max Wedge thingy, it's a chunk of machined aluminium, so, it should in theory be straight. With it mounted to the top cover pin, if it wont line up with the RSB, then there is the problem, knock the pin out of the RSB and smack the ever living dog piss out of it, and rotate it till it fits. It shouldn’t take much, only .005 or so of movement. Then run I think it's a 3/32 drill bit or a tiny round file to clean and straighten out the hole out and reinsert the lock pin. Then once the scope thingy fits, put the rifle back into its original form and try it. If it's not the RSB thats canted, the scope thingy in theory will or should drop right on and the problem is elsewhere, such as a bent barrel or canted front sight.
This is just what I would try for S&Gs. Trial error and elimination
It's hard to tell due to the angle of the pic since you are not lined up directly in line with the string, but a little off to the right yourself. As is, it does look like the chamber is also off to the right a little which would lend itself to what I was saying.
Obviously I can't be certain without getting my hands on it, but IMO I think either the barrel threads were machined off thus causing the misalignment of the barrel off to the left or the barrel has a slight bend to the left. Both of which would cause what is happening and give the alignment issues to the pressed on parts you are seeing. This also causing the need to push the front sight left.
If my suspicions are correct you have these fixes before you.
1) the hardest fix but most proper would be a cold bend correction on the barrel.
2) next would be to cant the FSB to the left to get your adjustment capabilities back. Fairly easy, but not my highest recommendation. Unless you decide you want a quick fix while keeping it original.
3) put on the Techsight(recommend the T-200) which will give you the longest sight radius and most windage adjustment while giving a decent appearance of alignment.
4) Install the Magwedge and try a scope with the possibility that you will run out of windage adjustment. If this fails you are still set up to install the Tech-sight.
The issue with any but the first fix is that with the alignment of the front and rear sights not being true you are forced to zero windage as well as elevation at every distance. It goes back to the angle game I mentioned before. If your action alignment is true once your windage is set you are good throughout your effective ballistic range and only have to worry about elevation. If your action alignment is off, like yours seems to be, then every increased increment of distance you will have to adjust for windage as well as elevation.
Quote from: Greasemonkey on November 12, 2014, 01:30:53 PM
"What if" time :) What if you just try to install the Max Wedge thingy, it's a chunk of machined aluminium, so, it should in theory be straight. With it mounted to the top cover pin, if it wont line up with the RSB, then there is the problem, knock the pin out of the RSB and smack the ever living dog piss out of it, and rotate it till it fits. It shouldn’t take much, only .005 or so of movement. Then run I think it's a 3/32 drill bit or a tiny round file to clean and straighten out the hole out and reinsert the lock pin. Then once the scope thingy fits, put the rifle back into its original form and try it. If it's not the RSB thats canted, the scope thingy in theory will or should drop right on and the problem is elsewhere, such as a bent barrel or canted front sight.
This is just what I would try for S&Gs. Trial error and elimination
GM, this is what LC and I are eluding to and which I explained more about above. If it is a matter of the RSB simply being canted to the right then by effect the rifle should be shooting off to the right, but it is not. It is hitting off to the left and AG is having to max out the front post to the left to bring it back into position.
Don't get me wrong. Your thought on the magwedge lining up to show that the RSB is canted or not is a good idea. It is only that I believe the POA and POI dictate and eliminate that as being the problem.
Yeah... something strange must be going on. After I thought about it, the poi being left with a far left post drift and a right cant rsb just doesn't make sense.
Being that both front and rear sight mounting locations are on the barrel, Im having a hard time seeing a misalignment in receiver to barrel mating. :-\
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on November 12, 2014, 02:08:31 PM
Yeah... something strange must be going on. After I thought about it, the poi being left with a far left post drift and a right cant rsb just doesn't make sense.
Being that both front and rear sight mounting locations are on the barrel, Im having a hard time seeing a misalignment in receiver to barrel mating. :-\
I say this with the opinion that more than likely the barrel is bent. Nevertheless, keep in mind the sight view includes your line of sight from the eye forward. The eye being behind the rear of the receiver. If, the barrel threading was machined off somehow thus pushing the barrel to the left and if, they canted the RSB to compensate for it, in theory, it would have the cause and effect we are discussing here. It could also be the receiver that was machined wrong. Maybe it wasn't secure during process or something. I don't know if that could happen, or if it could that it would be enough to have the effect on the alignment to cause the issue that AG's rifle is having.
Heck maybe AG is shooting right handed and is left eye dominant and that is the whole problem. chuckles1 chuckles1 :P :P
I wish.. but I do shoot left handed :) but I am left eye dominant. I will continue to mess with it a bit, if all else fails ship it off to Murray and see if he can find it. So what about this. If the barrel were bent toward the left, just a tad bit, that would cause what I am experiencing? I cannot take a picture of it.. well I can try.. but with the rifle stripped, sitting in my vice and looking down over the receiver and over the rsb, it looks like the front sight globe is to the left.
Here are the 3 shots I got of that.
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/028.jpg)
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/027.jpg)
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb443/agrace69/026.jpg)
I know what you mean about getting your hands on it, if we were all here looking at this it would be much easier. :)
I also threw the magwedge rail on the rife It went on fine, no bind nothing. I also checked the level of it and it is level all the way to the rsb. So.. it looks like it could be slight bend in the barrel
Here is what I can see from the second pic which, although blurry appears to be lined up well. You can see the front globe is off to the left while everything else appears to line up. More evidence toward the barrel being bent.
I wish I still had access to a hydraulic press. I'd just have you come up to KC and I'd bend it for you. If you have access to one I can walk you though it if you want to try.
no sir.. no access... one question though. Is this thing safe to shoot this way? I would assume it is but.. never hurts to ask. I can try a scope and if that doesn't work a tech sight and see what I can get. Just checked Murray's site and he has a barrel straighten for $110.00. I could just set it back till I want to let go of the funds.
From what I am seeing, and the fact that you have been shooting it without any noticeable problems other than the POI, I'd say it is probably okay to shoot. Also, Given all the pics, I'd say the bend in the barrel is right in front of the gas block.
Now, it does beg the question, are you noticing any other symtoms like gas blowback or carbon build up around the tube front or back that might indicate a gas leak or bad headspace due to the bent barrel. If anything like that then I'd say park it until you get it to murray.
What about a shot of barrel index marks, and is there no chance the front sight is the problem?
I can't imagine a barrel be to difficult to straighten, if I can straighten a truck frame or trailer frame, a barrel ought a be a cake walk.
Looking at the extractor cut out on the barrel in the photos, it looks close, but can't say for certain.
He shooting 'dem crooked bullets rofl
What I do for barrel straightening is a carry over from when I was a front end mechanic doing Ford I-beam cold bend alignments. Same process of hydraulically bending slightly past where the barrel/beam needs to be then letting it spring back into the proper position. The catch is determining where exactly to place the supports and contact the barrel with the press as well as if you will need to walk it out with multiple bends working down the barrel.
As to your question on it possibly being the FSB, the POI is going the wrong direction in conjunction to how the FSB abd RSB are sitting. That is what both LC and I eluded to earlier.
Yup... me thinks it has a slight bow to the left that was actually correctable with a post drift. Couldn't be more then a 16th from lug to muzzle. He dont have an elevation issue and its not noticeable by naked eye, so if there ever was one that could be straightened, this one would be it.
I say he sends it to GG. 8)
I called Murray and talked with him a bit. Pretty sure at this point it is bent just a hair behind the front gas block. I am going to send it to him at some point and have him confirm and then see if I want to pay to have it fixed or just use it the way it is. Anyway.. thanks for all the help and advice guys. I greatly appreciate it. Not sure what I would do if I couldn't ask questions like these somewhere :)
Quote from: agrace on November 12, 2014, 06:40:14 PM
I called Murray and talked with him a bit. Pretty sure at this point it is bent just a hair behind the front gas block. I am going to send it to him at some point and have him confirm and then see if I want to pay to have it fixed or just use it the way it is. Anyway.. thanks for all the help and advice guys. I greatly appreciate it. Not sure what I would do if I couldn't ask questions like these somewhere :)
Just curious about the outcome of this issue agrace. Have you been able to resolve it to your satisfaction?
No sir. I sent it to Murray about around the 15th of November and have yet to hear anything. So at this point I still don't know if it has a bent barrel or if something else is wrong. I hope to hear something soon.
I know this has to be frustrating for you but I'm sure it will work out okay. Remember there are some great minds working with you on this....well....ah....you have the support of some friends! rofl
Update on this -- Mr. Murray sent me an e-mail today, the barrel was indeed bent significantly left and down a bit, however he fixed it up and sighted it in and it is headed back to me. I can't wait to get it back and get it to the range. I can't say enough about Murray and his service and knowledge, it is outstanding and I highly recommend anyone needing a gunsmith to reach out to him first!
Glad to hear!! dance1
Outstanding!!! thumb1
That's what we have been waiting to hear...HURRAH for Murray!
Awesome! thumb1
You should go to Murrays section here in the Files and leave him that same feedback.
There was at least one other thread elsewhere about this same issue with one of Classics rifles. In one of those it really looked to me as if the customer had basically acted as his own worst enemy, iirc rejecting a refund/exchange offer by Classic due to some perceived "attachment" he had formed for the rifle..but accepting 100$ cash back :o
It's also been said that their customer service absolutely blows unless you happen to be someone they expect they'll be selling a lot of rifles to, so with all this taken together, I've pretty much determined to never do business with them. Apparently they used to be pretty decent but after a change in ownership, not as much these days. The way I see it, it shouldn't take someone like Murray's to do the sort of things they did in this case just to get your "new to me" rifle running, unless the customer knows what he's buying and it's priced accordingly. There's just too many places to buy from to even consider doing business with an outfit that's sending rifles out the door as VG when they're actually gunsmith specials or best suited for parts. FFS when a complaint comes in about a bent barrel, tell your pick/packs to look 'em over for a while, or send someone out to the warehouse to do an hours worth of spot grading and see what they find.
Understanding that it's a world where your customers are formed into communities and share a ton of information about the quality of your products and customer service is still escaping some people it seems. Anyway, OP I hope your rifle runs well for you, I just hate for you that you had to throw healthy money at it to get it there.