I recently picked up a 1960 Romanian SKS and have been experiencing issues with it only cycling between 1 and 4 rounds before the rifle either stovepipes or fails to eject/feed. I have relentlessly cleaned every nook and cranny and lubed it appropriately (not too little, not too much) and am still experiencing reliability issues. There are no aftermarket parts on the rifle so this leads me to believe that it is not the magazine, though I could be wrong. The loop on my sling that rests next to the front of the gas tube has a black residue on it. I may not have noticed it before but I assumed that it would be worth the mention. What other measures could be taken to increase the reliability? Thanks a lot in advance.
Just gotta ask... Is the recoil spring in correct, the squiggly end up inside the carrier?
And welcome, pictures please thumb1
If I had a dollar for every person that asked me if the spring was in correct I would have just bought the Cugir plant in Romania and forced them to make me a new rifle lol. Yeah, it's in right. Also, pictures are a no-go as I'm back at school until the first week of May.
Welp....We cant start at step 9 in troubleshooting without knowing, we cant see it, and in your OP you didn't mention "my recoil spring is correct" or other steps short of cleaning and lube, I'm not a mind reader rofl.... So I just try to start with basics. thumb1
Is the op rod binding up? Gas pistion binding in the tube? Port clean? Gas tube loose fitting on the gas block causing excessive leakage?
And I guess I owe the man a dollar.. I got your dollar rofl
The op rod is moving the way it's supposed to but the gas piston has pitting along the rod itself, not the face. I've been told this is a non-issue but it seems to get stuck in the rear of the gas tube. The gas tube itself is somewhat loose, but not much more than my Norinco's tube and it's never had a failure or stoppage of any kind. The port is clear of any obstructions but has some minor pitting.
Could try and swap the two gas tubes and pistons. This is provided the Chinese has a normal length tube and piston. They should interchange.
It is normal for the pistion to stick down inside of the tube as the piston only has to travel about 3/4 inch to do its job, so they usually are not machined fully, just the first inch- inch and a half. And I wouldnt worry about face pitting, the sides/edges where it seals is more critical.
I'll have my brother swap the tubes tomorrow and try it out, what if this does not fix the problems? What else could be causing it to fail so frequently?
Another question... Does it do this just cycling by hand or only firing? Hand cycling all 10 rounds by hand.......in a safe location of course :)
It will cycle everything when I do it by hand. It only hangs up while firing.
have you tried different types of ammo?
Where the tube goes into the gas block, it is too loose to seal properly, and you are not getting enough energy to fully cycle the action. This would be why you are getting residue by your sling attachment point.
I have several NC Star gas tubes that I play around with...all are loose in that location to a varying degree from gun to gun. Some of them, when especially loose...behave exactly as you describe.
Depending on your ammo, you may be getting some charges that are a little hotter than others. Causing some inconsistency to your dilemma as well....or, If it is loose enough, the whole tube might settle into place after a couple rounds and the behavior might change a little...the spring tension in the magazine changes as you reduce the rounds as well, but I would say your main problem is losing the energy you need to fully cycle the op rod far enough to provide full ejection.
If you have front to back slipping causing it not to seat firmly into place, you could be losing it there, or if it is simply the tube having too great of an inside diameter to seal with the gas block, it would be there.
The only other thing I could think of is if you have an SKSS piston in a full length tube, but the escaping gases would then be though the ventilation ports aft of the piston...or at least where it is supposed to be aft of the piston....I would also think the sound of the piston slipping back and forth in the tube would be a dead giveaway. chuckles1
It is most definitely not ammo related as I have tried four different types from Tula to Hornady brass. If it is the gas tube not sealing properly with the block, thus failing to move the op rod through a lack of force, what could be done to fix it? Could I just buy a new gas tube and see if it works?
If you have the ability to try swap it with another to see if it solves it, then yes that would be the easiest route.
Is the tube original to the Romy or is it possibly a replacement that came from another nationality?
I haven't owned one, but the parts I have seen available (which isn't often) seemed more robust, therefore it is possible that they used different machining processes and may have different tolerances. I haven't seen many folks with Romanians that they have done anything to, they more often are in the hands of collectors rather than tinkerers. Which, aside from their low importation numbers affects how many parts you see in the wild. I don't believe I have ever seen a Romanian gas tube for sale.
If there is a LOT of wiggle at that fitting, you might be able to 'shim' it with some metal tape that can handle the heat...not that I recommend that, but I might be tempted to try it in your shoes. Is the overall length of the tube correct with no forward and backward slippage? If it is there, you might be able to wrap a paper clip or wire (neatly) around the gas block fitting to 'lengthen' the tube at the fitting...but that would also be a LOT of wiggle room....and is a pretty crappy fix. Either of those ideas might be good for troubleshooting and making sure that is where the problem lies before buying a new tube. I wouldn't use them long term.
A machinist or plumber might know how to 'crimp' down on the tube to get it a little tighter at the fitting, as it shouldn't be much...since I am neither, it might not be possible... but if retaining the original tube is critical, it might be an option. I suppose it comes down to how much you value it being all original, if it is.
You could try a decent sized pipe cutter, not on the cutting edges of course, just with the gas tube resting on the rollers, and swaging it tighter. It takes a pretty good tubing cutter to do this. If you have a decent one just keep working it and trial fitting it until the tube fits snug over the gas block, and recheck to make sure the piston moves freely in it still also.
If this doesn't work or your unable to do it, then a gas tube replacement is by far the easiest way. Just swap your handguard over, or install the aftermarket one to play with and keep the factory one for display purposes.
The tube is original to the rifle and while I do want to keep it in its original configuration I don't see any harm in having a second tube for shootin' and the original tube for display. That being said, it does move considerably more than my Chiese SKS but I had always believed that my Chinese variant was excessively tight as it takes me nearly four times as long to field strip it as opposed to my Romanian. If I were to buy another tube could I just go with an American company that produces new ones? I could just buy a spare handguard to replace the polymer ones that (Tapco?) produces and nobody would be the wiser to its new part. Or am I a little far off and perhaps the new production tubes are not worth the time or money.
A normal Chinese or Russian, or any standard SKS tube could be used.. but, like swapping any nations parts, some fitting may or may not be required. Ones that will not fit, the short Chinese commercial or the M59/66 variant. I won't even speak of an Albanian tube, if you find and buy one, you have already paid twice what a Russian or other would have cost.
You could buy one and swap yours or just find another wooden handguard and swap the plastic out. Leaving the factory one alone and complete leaves the collectivity in place because it's original to that rifle. Just swapping a alternate tube and handguard, leaving the factory one at home to shoot it won't hurt any value, but if it is a numbers matching gas tube, altering the number matching part could decrease the rifles overall value.
Honestly, it sounds like a magazine feed lip issue. Try closing the feed lips in a bit and see if that helps. Seen this exact issue on a local guy's Chinese letter gun, and that's what it was.
Clean the chamber REALLY good.
Did you make sure the squiggly end of the return spring is forward and into the carrier?
https://youtu.be/etuT5KKdA68
thankyou1
What is the best way to close the feed lips without potentially causing damage to the magazine?
Did you chuck up a large brush on a rod in a drill and get after that chamber with some solvent from the rear of the disassembled receiver? You know many types of ammo have a protective coating that acts like glue and can reduce its ability to extract properly right?
I would do as previously suggested and start swapping parts one at a time from another sks until the issue resolves itself. Start with the piston, then tube, then mag. If you still have an issue, its going to be a problem with the chamber, or the gasblock not seated/sealing against the barrel properly.
If you try a dif mag and it still does it.... No need to go bending crap as you may actually introduce a new and second issue.
Normally feedlip issues are nosed up/down rounds when chambering that hang the tip of the round somewhere other then going into the chamber. . I'm betting your having issues fully extracting and ejecting..... Thats a short stroke issue, not a magazine issue.
Quotestovepipes or fails to eject/feed
Highly doubt its the feed lips of the mag.
Now that you mention it, many of the rounds were nose up or down. Perhaps it is a short stroke issue. What is the remedy for something like this?
That's a dif scenario then you described in your OP.
Try swapping the parts first.... One at a time.
One time I almost bought a Russian SkS at a gun store. I took it apart to check the numbers and noticed pin holes in the in the underside of the gas tube. Never seen that before but probably due to corrosion it pitted it out. Im sure you've had it apart enough and would have noticed that by now. Its not often we here about a function problem with any SkS besides the M59/66 but theres some really good info in the thread that should give positive results. Good luck
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on April 08, 2017, 11:14:43 PM
That's a dif scenario then you described in your OP.
Try swapping the parts first.... One at a time.
Yeah, different scenario, but I figured mentioning that it was stovepiping and failing to eject would have covered that, I didn't think the specifics would matter, my apologies.
And there does not appear to be any sort of corrosion present on or in the gas tube, so I guess it's problem would be in relation to the seal with the gas block.
It not just corrosion one has to worry about at the joint between the gas block and tube.. High pressure super hot gasses can etch, cut and remove small micro amounts of metal with every shot, think how a oxy/acetylene torch works, but this process is just very, very slow. Both the the gas block and gas tube can suffer from this. Now the looser fitting it is, the worse the effects can get due to higher volumes of hot gasses bypassing.
So there could be damage to the gas block itself? Those aren't easily replaceable, if I'm not mistaken.
Nope, they aren't, but before you go all in to a panic mode, that is what can possibly happen.... Try the Chinese you have if it is a regular sized tube. Actually swap and troubleshoot with parts and pieces, when it fires several boxes with out a burp or fart, the problem has been resolved. If new problems crop up, we could/can go from there knowing what was tried, what worked or didnt work.
In my opinion, we can discuss problems and issues till blue in the face...but until it's in hand and things tried, tested and feedback is given, everything here is really is just a best guess based off our past experiances and what one remembers while firing and what seems to be semi vague or deflections of different troubles.
Owning 4 Romanians myself, I can say they are no less durable than any other, any SKS can suffer these issues be it a Russian, Chinese, Albanian or NVA or North Korean. Some rifles want some love before they will work, others will work great from the get go, and there are those that in the end are worth their weight in scrap.
Right, I hope that I can get my brother to swap out those tubes and test it before the semester ends. I would like to have some sort of info before I go home for the summer, but worse comes to worse I'll just do it myself and report back with my findings.
Update: I'm on the phone with my brother right now and his gunsmith buddy apparently offered to take a look at it. Here's to hoping that he can find something out about it and give some good news.
You mentioned getting a US made tube and just swapping out the plastic....that won't work. Tapco removed the retaining ferrules from both ends of their tube design and their handguards just pin underneath. There is nowhere to put a wood handguard.
Nobody makes aftermarket gas tubes that actually are replacements of the original. NC Star tubes of all flavors suck if you are trying to FIX a problem with a leak, Tapcos are really nice, but you have to deal with the plastic. If you are lucky you can find the old style Tapco without the silly useless rail on top, they are actually pretty slick. They are the closest thing to the real thing in appearance.
Even though replacing the handguard is a no go, if the Tapco gas tube works I could just put up with the weird look of polymer on wood for the sake of shooting. Functionality over form, I guess.
One way around the splastic plastic is... http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/sks-gas-tube-and-handguard.aspx
Put your Romanian HG on it and your gtg. And its cheaper then ebay thumb1
I have a couple of two piece Chinese tubes that might work for you...don't go Tapco unless you really don't mind. I am waiting on an order of ferrules to find one that has the pin placement a little better than these two are set up...both of the ferrules on these extend a little beyond the length of the tube itself...which functionality wise shouldn't matter....there are no gases at that point to worry about....but it bugs me, so I haven't sold them yet.