I'm just going to leave this here......for now.... whistle12
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17309776_10155144983803501_8538493501825022798_n.jpg?oh=c18485e0f27c0c333b9341e60bb1d724&oe=592955CC)
A Tavor?
Looks kinda like a M41A Mk2 Pulse Rifle :)
What's the trigger pull like on an IWI Tavor?
More generally, are there any bullpups that don't have a creepy trigger with a pull greater than 6 lbs? Or is that just a mechanical friction "fact of life" inherent in any bullpup with their complex trigger linkage designs?
Quote from: Phosphorus32 on March 17, 2017, 01:27:03 PM
What's the trigger pull like on an IWI Tavor?
More generally, are there any bullpups that don't have a creepy trigger with a pull greater than 6 lbs? Or is that just a mechanical friction "fact of life" inherent in any bullpup with their complex trigger linkage designs?
It's not a Tavor.... more to come later....
Quote from: Power Surge on March 17, 2017, 02:00:52 PM
Quote from: Phosphorus32 on March 17, 2017, 01:27:03 PM
What's the trigger pull like on an IWI Tavor?
More generally, are there any bullpups that don't have a creepy trigger with a pull greater than 6 lbs? Or is that just a mechanical friction "fact of life" inherent in any bullpup with their complex trigger linkage designs?
It's not a Tavor.... more to come later....
Interesting. Made to look just like a Tavor then :) My general questions about bullpups remain, but perhaps that's for a separate thread...
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/09/26/trigger-pulls-good-bad-ugly/
These factory bullpup triggers are in the 9+ lb range.
Ok....would have uploaded more last night, but photobucket was not being overly cooperative.
This is a project that I have been working on for the past year. I have always loved the Tavor SAR rifle, but was not overly fond of the $1800 price tag, plus I prefer the 7.62x39 round, which the Tavor is not offered in. Being an SKS enthusiast, I thought it might be fun to attempt to build a Tavor clone, but using an SKS for the action. I kicked around several ways of doing this, and then I found that several companies make airsoft versions of the Tavor, with the stocks being almost identical to the Tavor, since they are officially licensed by IWI. So I picked up an SKS parts gun from a local guy, and found a take off airsoft Tavor stock on ebay. That was the easy part...
After that, began the year long process of making the SKS fit inside the stock, and make everything function as it should. That included a forward charging handle, and removable AR style magazine (in 7.62). I can't really fully describe how much work went into this project. Every single part of this gun, required modification and custom made parts. I think the only unmodified part of the rifle is the AR 7.62 magazines :). The receiver needed the sides milled down to fit inside the stock. The magazine area needed to be milled out to accept the AR magazine. Instead of letting the magazine take the hit of the bolt for the last round hold open, I was able to modify the factory hold open to pop up on the last round being pushed up by the magazine follower. The bolt was machined with the "drop free" mod, to allow the magazine to be removed and installed with the bolt closed. The ejector and ejection port was modified to let the cases eject at more of a sideways angle out the stock. The trigger assembly was modified to work inside the stock, and has custom linkage to activate the trigger from the remote front trigger. The safety that was already in the airsoft stock, still functions to block the trigger. The inside of the stock halves had to be milled in certain areas to fit the action inside. The original front sight block and front stock ferrule were removed from the barrel. The barrel was cut down to 16" and threaded for an A2 compensator. The front gas block was modified to mount to the stock. The front and rear hand guard ferrules were removed from the gas tube. Rear sight leaf removed from the rear sight block, and sides shaved down. Custom action pins made with stainless button head screws for positive pin retention. Upper rail mount custom made from a block of aluminum. The front cover portion of the stock that has the charge handle on one side and short picatinny on the other side could not be obtained separately for the airsoft stock, so I had to custom make one from scratch out of a block of Delrin. The airsoft stock is actually about an inch longer than the Tavor stock, which is why it goes out an inch past where the top rail ends. The top rail is a stock Tavor SAR rail, with the flip up sights. There's probably more I'm forgetting....it's been a long path here, lol.
And to answer Phos' trigger question....it's 4.5 lbs, and smooth as silk. I couldn't be happier with the the trigger. I expected it to feel like crap.
Here's a lot more pics.... :)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/11_zpseibdo5gx.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/12_zpsyqzvuvg6.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/13_zpstwqvg0ry.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/14_zpsa6ppgrcm.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/15_zpsarlk0uvp.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/16_zpsozw8mo4q.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/17_zpsg6x6xcbm.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/18_zpspmwcih7y.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/19_zpsnwewtkmi.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/20_zpspqx3wvju.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/21_zps6591bvwj.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/22_zpsjan3ozjc.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/23_zpsivig92la.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/24_zpsrf4th3in.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/25_zpstcvohknh.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/26_zpss0np6sva.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/27_zps23wbdhnv.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/28_zpsalyaveqh.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/29_zpsktz5jfnc.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/30_zpsj3vtpwd5.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/32_zpsopfcsskj.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/33_zps4u9ugivg.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/34_zpslexwuyjf.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/35_zpsjxgnakef.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/37_zps10v7sldv.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/38_zpsjmd8qzlv.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/39_zpshg1cm7mx.jpg)
(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r119/PowerSurgePerf/Tavor%20SKS/36_zpsyw42ipdo.jpg)
Thats so cool, plus you have all the workshop tools i will never be able to afford :(
I was thinking about doing the same thing with an airsoft svd and a svt at one point, but theres no airsoft stores in the boonies. So if you want to do that next and tell me how it goes that would be great. :)
Wow, that looks like a year's worth of work :o Amazing the trigger is that light, nice job thumb1
This message is Cannon approved. thumb1
Little function testing and sight in this morning. Need to redo the forward charge handle rod, as it's binding and not letting the action cycle fully. Should be an easy fix.
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17424654_10155152452148501_155464271096025725_n.jpg?oh=59e704586fef01341000cac464a1ad02&oe=59591B8B)
Impressive!
Now that is friggin' beautiful!
That looks so much more solid looking and less toy-like than most bullpup kits out there. It is kind of funny that it actually once was a toy. 8)
I had hemmed and hawed over ever trying that...and have kind of shied away from it. Seeing so many used kits for sale makes me think they must have a high failure rate regarding dependability. I figured if I ever tried it, I would likely just get a plank of wood and noodle around with making my own...and not really going too crazy on modding the gun.
Now that the bar has been raised, I don't know if I could bring myself to do anything less...That looks pretty darn fierce! It also seems like the novelty would never wear off, like I thought the other kits would.
Now that you have done all the engineering and trial and error, how difficult would it be to duplicate the parts you have fabricated? It would be so cool to see these available by custom order.
Great way to show off the shop a little too, nice! thumb1
What is the story behind that right side serialed receiver? Just curious...I haven't seen that before.
What does it weigh loaded and with optics/sights? Pics with the mag and whatever you are using for optics would be cool to see as well. :)
Quote from: Justin Hell on March 19, 2017, 05:05:06 PM
What is the story behind that right side serialed receiver? Just curious...I haven't seen that before.
What does it weigh loaded and with optics/sights? Pics with the mag and whatever you are using for optics would be cool to see as well. :)
Since the sides of this receiver had to be milled down, that obviously wiped out the serial as well. I just restamped it when it was done, and I put it in that spot because you can see that area from outside the stock. The gun had been scrubbed previously, as there was no signs of an arsenal stamp anywhere, just the odd 5 digit serial. And it obviously wasn't a ghost, because it was a pinned barrel gun. It does have the speculated date stamping on the underside of the receiver though, that we see on some 70s pinned barrel guns, so I believe it was a 71 vintage.
No optics just yet. I was using the factory flip up sights built into the Tavor top rail. (pretty cool)
Unloaded weight is about 8.5 lbs, so it's similar to an SKS or a tactical'd out AR. But the difference is that all the weight is right off your shoulder.... so there's virtually no fatigue holding the the gun aimed at something.
I'll take some pics in a bit with a 20 round mag installed and flip up sights up.
I am sure the weight shift difference is tremendous.
Three round burst would be something cool with the altered capabilities, too bad mechanically it is unrealistic, and legally cost prohibitive. It seems like with a nicely tuned brake it would be quite controllable...and devastating. :)
I wondered whether there would be the sight radius to have effective use of flip up sights for anything other than short distances...what distance were those groups?
Quote from: Justin Hell on March 19, 2017, 06:01:52 PM
I am sure the weight shift difference is tremendous.
Three round burst would be something cool with the altered capabilities, too bad mechanically it is unrealistic, and legally cost prohibitive. It seems like with a nicely tuned brake it would be quite controllable...and devastating. :)
I wondered whether there would be the sight radius to have effective use of flip up sights for anything other than short distances...what distance were those groups?
Just 25 yards. Nobody really uses the flip up sights only. But that's what I had, lol.
I would like to get an Eotech clone reflex sight. But I want to find one that co-witnesses with the flip up sights.
20 round AR 7.62 mag installed, and factory flip up sights...
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17362856_10155153779448501_4623807559984459799_n.jpg?oh=111881026fe57d7d726c189388c8e8bc&oe=595AF2D9)
Kewl....those sights are nifty, but I can see why you wouldn't want them to be primaries....the cowitness thing seems like a good idea...might need a riser though.
Quote from: Justin Hell on March 19, 2017, 10:31:31 PM
Kewl....those sights are nifty, but I can see why you wouldn't want them to be primaries....the cowitness thing seems like a good idea...might need a riser though.
There's a few that are made to co-witness on the Tavor. Just don't want to spend the money on the brand name ones...they cost more than I have into the entire rifle, lol.
Now that is some fancy work! Much respect! Don't think I'll be cutting up my own Tavor to give it a go though LOL.
thumb1
Did a little more tweaking on the Skavor project. The front of the charge handle was a little too flexible, so I made a new front section from an original cleaning rod (hardened steel) and then silver soldered it to the charge rod. It wasn't extracting properly, so I did some work on the extractor and polished the chamber. Firing much better now. Only issue it still has is sometimes ejected cases get caught upwards into the stock. So next will be to build a deflector hood into the stock and that should solve it. And the factory flip up sights leave much to be desired, so looking for an optic next.
When does production kick off?
Awesome build, very impressive!
Wow, it's been three years since I did anything with this rifle :o :P :))
The 7.62x39 SKavor project was getting some range time after doing some more fine tuning to get the rifle reliable. I had previously had some feed issues, as well as ejection issues. I tamed down the gas system using the SKS three hole gas tube mod. I also added an internal ejection hood to deflect the cases out of the stock. Had perfect case ejection today, however still need to work on the feed issues. The rounds just sit too flat in the mags, and they really need to be angle upwards more like an AK mag. It shot great though. This was the first time really putting some decent rounds through it. The Mepro RDS optic was really nice as well. It's definitely getting there.
(https://i.ibb.co/r7LK7Fz/70897544-10157604017068501-1490516327893303296-n.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yfMmfdZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/hFYMd2N/106305085-10158479171643501-3463586725501503867-o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/v4XBdLW)
WANT!!!
I like it and it apparently shoots really well! I wish it wasn't so labor intensive or I might try it. I'm not confident in my skills to mess around nor do I probably own the tools that you used to modify and make a lot of the parts.
When you start production let me know how much and maybe I'll buy one. chuckles1
PowerSurge, not sure if you looked at some of your previous post in this thread but you pictures has disappeared.
Hey guys... Since I've been home for 2 months out on injury, I figured it would be a good time to work on the 7.62x39 SKavor project. The two main issues I had to address after the last range outing, was feeding issues and the charge handle. Previously, the forward charge handle was directly attached to the bolt, and thus is would cycle back and forth with the bolt. That wasn't an issue until the last outing, when it became apparent that the weight of the charge handle knob cycling back and forth caused it to break off the connecting rod. So I re-engineered the charging system to where it's a spring loaded handle/rod, that fits into a cup on the side of the bolt. This way it's only used for actually cycling the bolt manually. On the feed issues, I needed to add a ramp under the chamber, to assist the rounds smoothly transitioning into the chamber without hanging up on the receiver under the chamber. Both modifications seemed to do the trick. The rifle fired beautifully today at the range for the first time since I started this project a few years ago. I got the Mepro RDS sighted in, and she was shooting some nice 3" groups at 50 yards, which I'm plenty happy with through a red dot. It's been a long road with this project, but I am super happy with the end result. Was so enjoyable to shoot. 😁
(https://scontent.ftpa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/183211049_10159269041493501_465328599671355819_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=PYwGpdt7YzEAX9c4E5p&_nc_ht=scontent.ftpa1-2.fna&oh=2fe54799165751c0b3775e972294c615&oe=60B9B75C)
(https://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/183363892_10159269041483501_3990337492102983088_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=DuCDfpCb240AX-nEM-N&_nc_ht=scontent.ftpa1-1.fna&oh=934d70691e4106542723286bec40d9cf&oe=60BB9B1E)
Very nice end result there PS, and 3" groups with any reddot is pretty good shooting.
Say, are you still gunsmithing?
Hey Boss, long time no see! Glad to hear you worked out the bugs on it. thumb1
Quote from: running-man on May 07, 2021, 06:21:41 PM
Hey Boss, long time no see! Glad to hear you worked out the bugs on it. thumb1
Thank ya Joe. I'm still around and kicking. I check in here now and then. lol
Quote from: Greatguns on May 07, 2021, 03:59:18 PM
Very nice end result there PS, and 3" groups with any reddot is pretty good shooting.
Say, are you still gunsmithing?
I've got different things going on most of the time, but I do still take in gunsmithing work :)
Holy necrothread...HOLY necromember.... he has risen.. thumb1
Quote from: Greasemonkey on May 07, 2021, 11:56:14 PM
Holy necrothread...HOLY necromember.... he has risen.. thumb1
:) :P thankyou1
Great final result on the SKavor or PSKS thumb1
Good to see you! :)
Hey PS! Good to hear from ya again! Was wondering where you've been. Hope your injury isn't too severe and you recover fully and quickly! Just glad to see you on the board again!
firstchoice