This has probably been covered.
The sks para would be my choice. Without the fully automatic ak i dont see the point.
You can argue it has a 30 round mag. Which is true.
But the SKS doesn't jump around as much when fired. Plus it is more diverse/multi purpose weapon.
And you can fire the SKS in the prone position.
Thoughts?
The Ak can somewhat easily be shot prone with a 5 or 10 rd magazine. thumb1 Shooting prone, it doesn't move much.
Since you did not specify.... :)
An Ak, the Dragunov, PSL, Saiga, Vepr can reach 20 foot or 600-800 yards with ease in 7.62x54r, .308 or 8mm, or do duty as a shotgun. The RPK Ak equipped with a bipod and drum can be fired prone.
Just throwing it out there.. thumb1
I think if the Para was better, more diverse, the major world powers would all be equipped with para SKSs instead of Aks. Even China didn't use them and they built them.
But, hey it's just my opinion.. :)
Kind of like asking whether a 16 lb sledge or a 2 oz jewelers hammer is better. They were both designed for specific purposes and both have their strengths and weaknesses even though they were both intended to be swung to hit something. The AK was initially designed as an automatic weapon so it's not a true comparison to look at a US legal semi-auto AK and compare it to a semi-auto SKS.
Having said that, if it's a comparison between a US legal semi-auto AK vs a paratrooper SKS I'd be partial to a plain jane 20" SKS in military configuration myself!! rofl2 Of course I'll be the first to admit that I'm utterly biased too. dance2
Quote from: Greasemonkey on January 05, 2017, 07:37:03 PM
The Ak can somewhat easily be shot prone with a 5 or 10 rd magazine. thumb1 Shooting prone, it doesn't move much.
Since you did not specify.... :)
An Ak, the Dragunov, PSL, Saiga, Vepr can reach 20 foot or 600-800 yards with ease in 7.62x54r, .308 or 8mm, or do duty as a shotgun. The RPK Ak equipped with a bipod and drum can be fired prone.
Just throwing it out there.. thumb1
I think if the Para was better, more diverse, the major world powers would all be equipped with para SKSs instead of Aks. Even China didn't use them and they built them.
But, hey it's just my opinion.. :)
Just a plain jane common ak. WASR
Quote from: running-man on January 05, 2017, 07:42:45 PM
Kind of like asking whether a 16 lb sledge or a 2 oz jewelers hammer is better. They were both designed for specific purposes and both have their strengths and weaknesses even though they were both intended to be swung to hit something. The AK was initially designed as an automatic weapon so it's not a true comparison to look at a US legal semi-auto AK and compare it to a semi-auto SKS.
Having said that, if it's a comparison between a US legal semi-auto AK vs a paratrooper SKS I'd be partial to a plain jane 20" SKS in military configuration myself!! rofl2 Of course I'll be the first to admit that I'm utterly biased too. dance2
Arent SKS' more accurate? Less movent when firing?
Quote from: running-man on January 05, 2017, 07:42:45 PM
Kind of like asking whether a 16 lb sledge or a 2 oz jewelers hammer is better.
:) 16 pounder..
It kind of apples to oranges... Neither are target weapons, neither were designed to be, two totally different weapons with different roles.
An "automatic" military Ak doesn't need to be splithair accurate, wasn't designed to be, it makes up for it's accuracy short comings with shear firepower. It was designed to mow a space a of a football field or two down and be so simple it required little training, be so durable, it could be picked up after soaking in mud and fired and used again.
In reality, some commercial semiauto Aks are pretty accurate, some as much as an SKS. Alot depends on quality and type of the build, components and such.
I'm not biased either way... I like the Vz58 fart1 :)
The "paratrooper" SKS was simply a marketing gimmick by Navy Arms to get people to pay more for a surplus weapon and have another model to add to their catalog. A standard paratrooper is just a regular surplus SKS that had 4" cut of the barrel for the American market. It was never used by the Chinese.
From a design standpoint, the SKS was developed based off of prior guns of an era that saw much long range shooting. Longer barrels are not any more accurate, but they usually yield more bullet velocity and range. But 10 years after the Russians developed the SKS, they most likely realized that a 20" barrel was not really needed for modern combat of the day. Thus the AK-47 had a shorter barrel.
People talk about the AK's legendary ability to fire no matter what conditions it's in or how badly it's been abused or neglected. And that is definitely true - after all the platform generally has such loose tolerances nothing could ever really jamb, lol. However, the SKS is a MUCH more solidly built firearm and is practically indestructible. The only downside I really see is the chance of slam firing from lack of clean firing pin channel in extreme use.
As for the paratrooper - personally the standard paras do nothing at all for me. However, I do really like other 16" barrel commercial models that are more than just a shortened standard SKS. But I also love shooting the full size ones too.
And if you want to bridge the gap between SKS and AK....you can always get one of the AK mag variant commercial SKS models and have the best of both worlds :)
Just my 2 cents
Quote from: seaslob on January 05, 2017, 07:55:03 PM
Arent SKS' more accurate? Less movent when firing?
I think that's a old wives tale. Some SKSs/AKs are more accurate than others, but we're not talking tack drivers here. I would be hard pressed to call any milsurp in 7.62x39 truly 'accurate'. Hit somewhere near the center of mass on a man sized target at 100 yards...that's always been considered good enough for these cold war era weapons.
Wow! Great feedback.
If you had a choice in a SHTF scenario which would you rather have? SKS or AK semi?
Quote from: running-man on January 05, 2017, 10:23:49 PM
Quote from: seaslob on January 05, 2017, 07:55:03 PM
Arent SKS' more accurate? Less movent when firing?
I think that's a old wives tale. Some SKSs/AKs are more accurate than others, but we're not talking tack drivers here. I would be hard pressed to call any milsurp in 7.62x39 truly 'accurate'. Hit somewhere near the center of mass on a man sized target at 100 yards...that's always been considered good enough for these cold war era weapons.
No, neither are known tackdrivers, but.. :o Look out RM...GM is thinking.. fart1 rofl
One thing to think about, a 16 inch Ak against a regular 20 inch SKS, I think a slight upper hand in accuracy could go to the 20 inch SKS. Simply based off the roughly 4 inch increase in sight radius and looking at my Aks rear sight vs my SKS, the SKS has a slightly narrower sight groove. These together could in theory give the regular SKS the advantage. Those extra 4 inches might even add a negligible ballistics advantage as well, allowing for longer, slightly more accurate shots. This is why open sight target rifles have the sight mounted as far back close to the eye as possible, to increase the distance between the sights because it allows for greater accuracy.
This is also why Aks such as the RPK with the 23 inch barrel can have the accuracy advantage over the regular Ak at longer distances, figure the 6-7 inch longer sight radius over the regular Ak is a major help.
Now...with the Para SKS, in my opinion all bets are off, because the advantage is gone, short of the slightly more narrow rear sight groove. The important thing, the sight radius has been reduced 4 inches to pretty much equal to the Ak. Taking a high quality milled Ak, say a Bulgarian Arsenal or a Finnish Valmet and a Para SKS, with the same ammo at equal distances, at this point I would think they would be possibly very close.
Ok....all things being equal in that last bunch.. I'd lay my money on the Finnish Valmet at that point. Why think1 because the rear sight is mounted at the rear of the receiver cover. It's got radius... thumb1 chuckles1
Quote from: Greasemonkey on January 06, 2017, 02:34:26 AM
Quote from: running-man on January 05, 2017, 10:23:49 PM
Quote from: seaslob on January 05, 2017, 07:55:03 PM
Arent SKS' more accurate? Less movent when firing?
I think that's a old wives tale. Some SKSs/AKs are more accurate than others, but we're not talking tack drivers here. I would be hard pressed to call any milsurp in 7.62x39 truly 'accurate'. Hit somewhere near the center of mass on a man sized target at 100 yards...that's always been considered good enough for these cold war era weapons.
No, neither are known tackdrivers, but.. :o Look out RM...GM is thinking.. fart1 rofl
One thing to think about, a 16 inch Ak against a regular 20 inch SKS, I think a slight upper hand in accuracy could go to the 20 inch SKS. Simply based off the roughly 4 inch increase in sight radius and looking at my Aks rear sight vs my SKS, the SKS has a slightly narrower sight groove. These together could in theory give the regular SKS the advantage. Those extra 4 inches might even add a negligible ballistics advantage as well, allowing for longer, slightly more accurate shots. This is why open sight target rifles have the sight mounted as far back close to the eye as possible, to increase the distance between the sights because it allows for greater accuracy.
This is also why Aks such as the RPK with the 23 inch barrel can have the accuracy advantage over the regular Ak at longer distances, figure the 6-7 inch longer sight radius over the regular Ak is a major help.
Now...with the Para SKS, in my opinion all bets are off, because the advantage is gone, short of the slightly more narrow rear sight groove. The important thing, the sight radius has been reduced 4 inches to pretty much equal to the Ak. Taking a high quality milled Ak, say a Bulgarian Arsenal or a Finnish Valmet and a Para SKS, with the same ammo at equal distances, at this point I would think they would be possibly very close.
Ok....all things being equal in that last bunch.. I'd lay my money on the Finnish Valmet at that point. Why think1 because the rear sight is mounted at the rear of the receiver cover. It's got radius... thumb1 chuckles1
I am thinking about picking up a chinese AK. This the Para i just picked up.
I already have a 1990, i think, chinese sks 20".
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/606321841
Quote from: seaslob on January 06, 2017, 02:39:44 AM
I am thinking about picking up a chinese AK. This the Para i just picked up.
I already have a 1990, i think, chinese sks 20".
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/606321841
I have 3 Chinese Aks, 2 Mak 90s and a NHM-91, I like them, but I love these.. http://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=91.0 and http://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=89.0
my ak's cost 2x the price of my sks's. so price wise, sks's are a better buy. but, wouldn't change a thing. luving both. :o
Quote from: Greasemonkey on January 06, 2017, 02:50:29 AM
Quote from: seaslob on January 06, 2017, 02:39:44 AM
I am thinking about picking up a chinese AK. This the Para i just picked up.
I already have a 1990, i think, chinese sks 20".
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/606321841
I hear ya but the para i just picked up cost 750. and im going to get a trigger job. another 75 bucks.
I have 3 Chinese Aks, 2 Mak 90s and a NHM-91, I like them, but I love these.. http://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=91.0 and http://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=89.0
Quote from: carls sks on January 06, 2017, 08:31:24 AM
my ak's cost 2x the price of my sks's. so price wise, sks's are a better buy. but, wouldn't change a thing. luving both. :o
Hey Carl yer a vet? If so I first off want to say THANK YOU!
Do you prefer the ak to ar? Im looking to get an ak. The simplicity and reliability
has me sold.
My bias is towards original milspec configuration, so I naturally prefer the 20" over the commercially modified Para. I think the SKS is more robustly built, with it's machined manufacturing approach, and still the best bargain in semi-automatic completely original military configuration rifles/carbines that you can find.
That said, I really like my 2015 dated WASR-10. It's quite accurate and I can score hits on the 450 yd gong at my local range. I have the impression that the AKs are more variable with respect to which is a good or merely average shooter, but my experience is limited.
http://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=2114.0
I like both the AK and the SKS, for different reasons. If I had to go mobile in a SHTF/TEOTWAWKI situation I'd veer toward the more compact, lighter weight, higher capacity AK. I also like the AK just cuz it's the freakin' AK...history...over 47 million sold thumb1 On the other hand, for the robust manufacture, and collectible nature of an original configuration military firearm, I like the SKS.
Quote from: Greasemonkey on January 05, 2017, 08:33:18 PM
I'm not biased either way... I like the Vz58 fart1 :)
clap2 thumb1
Quote from: seaslob on January 06, 2017, 02:33:37 AM
Wow! Great feedback.
If you had a choice in a SHTF scenario which would you rather have? SKS or AK semi?
Now that's a different question! think1
Everyone is going to have a personal preference on it I think and there's no true one-size-fits-all answer. I would personally rather have an SKS as that's what I'm set up for. Stripper clips in a chest rig are more convenient for me than magazines. Hand out 10 or 15 carbines to whoever happens to be "with you" during the madness and break open a tin or two of 7.62x39 surplus and you're good to go at that moment as far as weaponry is concerned. The same could be said for people with AK collections and large magazine stashes I guess. Definitely more $$ that way though. Longer term and on the move, I'd actually think an AR15 or AK74 with the much lighter weight of the ammo compared to 7.62x39 would be the way to go. Here's an interesting comparison I found on another site:
Quote from: http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=159381RifleCalibers
.22 LR
Remington Golden 36gr PHP
Rounds per pound: 133.33
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 0.75
.223/5.56X45
(milsurp) British Radway Green SS109 63gr
Rounds per pound: 37.21
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 2.69
30-30 Winchester (a.k.a. .30WCF)
Winchester Silvertip 170gr flat nose
Rounds per pound: 20.28
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 4.92
.243Whinchester
75gr Hornady V-max Handloads
Rounds per pound: 22.22
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 4.5
.308 Winchester
Remington UMC 150gr FMJ
Rounds per pound: 19.05
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 5.25
.308 Winchester
168gr BTHP Match Bullet
Rounds per pound: 18.67
Weight per 100 rounds (lbs): 5.35
7mm Remington Magnum
Winchester 175gr Power Point
Rounds per pound:14.68
Weight per 100 rounds(lbs):6.81
7.62X39
Wolf Steel Case 122gr FMJ
Rounds per pound:27.59
Weight per 100 rounds(lbs):3.63
But honestly, at an end of world as we know it scenario like P32 describes where everything is out the window and it's only survival that people are concerned with, I'm going to guess that most people will simply use what's available. .270 hunting rifles with scopes, Mosin boat paddles w/ a tin of 7.62x54r surplus, heck even .22 single shots will be out there in use. It's impossible to plan for every scenario. Prepared in general yes, but then the safe house burns down, your group contracts some nasty virus, and you get raided by an malevolent warlord who escaped from the local prison. Then what? violin1
Having the equipment, knowledge, and skills to survive is a good starting point, but there's always the dumb luck factor that nobody can really predict. thumb1
Use what your comfortable with, what your proficient with, what you can hit your target with over and over and over.... this is what could enable you to live in a serious situation. Don't take this the wrong way, practice and experience vs hypothesizing which is better or superior will go along way.
If you can dong a 450 yard gong with your grandpas 30-30, but cant hit a barn wall from the inside with an SKS... you better forget about the SKS in a SHTF moment and grab that 30-30. If you can plug a fruit fly up the arse with a 25acp at 25 yards, but cant even touch the paper with a 9mm at 7 yards....whatcha gonna use.. think1
There is no wrong or right answer to the question...what I would choose may not be what RM or P32 would, what they choose, may not be what I could choose. In a oh my damn, the sky is falling situation, people will pick what they feel comfortable with, and those same people stock for that. Some will base it off their location, geography, surroundings, based off their environment, flat and plains like, hilly and heavily wooded, suburban, mountainous, there is no one specific perfect weapon.
Like the sky is gonna fall anyway... people been preachin it for years.. I worry more about nature and environment...see below.
And in a end of the world scenario when Mother Nature is sick of us..... such as a super volcano eruption, gamma ray burst, massive solar storm, E.L.E. comet/asteroid impact, severe biological impact or hyper germ/maybe even zombies :o or even a nuclear scorch the earth deal... Buy a 6 pack, get a lawn chair kick back, smoke a cigar and enjoy the ride....you won't want to survive into the aftermath.
Quote from: Greasemonkey on January 06, 2017, 01:59:00 PM
Use what your comfortable with, what your proficient with, what you can hit your target with over and over and over.... this is what could enable you to live in a serious situation.
And in a end of the world scenario when Mother Nature is sick of us..... such as a super volcano eruption, gamma ray burst, massive solar storm, E.L.E. comet/asteroid impact, severe biological impact or hyper germ/maybe even zombies :o or even a nuclear scorch the earth deal... Buy a 6 pack, get a lawn chair kick back, smoke a cigar and enjoy the ride....you won't want to survive into the aftermath.
THIS...and This right there. thumb1
I'm stocked to the gills with whatever 1 may need now... but....back in the glory days of Y2K.....I got 2 lobsters ( because I'd never tried 1 before) a piece of Pu-nan to share 'em with and had my trusty ole 1950 Russian SKS with a side of Romak 1 AK. Why? cuz the first 2 I enjoyed and I could hit the lid of a pop bottle at 30 yds with the SKS and obliterate the same bottle at 30 yd with the ak.
Honestly a Para and an AK are both super sweet in their own right, so I'm gonna say it...Why choose? GET both if ya can. You'll love and enjoy both, for sure. I'm biased to grabbing an SKS for sure but....any 1 of my AK's will fit the bill as well. ( but when It comes down to it..I trust my SKS's to bring home the wild game in these mountains just a tad more, Original 20" though)
Just great feedback all around. I have a 20" and 16". My next pick up with be an AK
when I move to a state that allows it. Which will be in the next couple of years.
Thinking about a WASR but would like to get a norinco.
Oh yeah, A Norinco AK is worth the move to another state thumb1 My problem is I have Norinco dreams on a Wasr budget. But....with the price on Wasr's going up every day...might as well save up and get 1 of those sweet, sweet double hook Norinco's.
Quote from: seaslob on January 07, 2017, 12:06:41 AM
Just great feedback all around. I have a 20" and 16". My next pick up with be an AK
when I move to a state that allows it. Which will be in the next couple of years.
Thinking about a WASR but would like to get a norinco.
What state are you in that you can't have an AK?
Quote from: armedhippie on January 07, 2017, 06:20:37 PM
Oh yeah, A Norinco AK is worth the move to another state thumb1 My problem is I have Norinco dreams on a Wasr budget. But....with the price on Wasr's going up every day...might as well save up and get 1 of those sweet, sweet double hook Norinco's.
I was looking at an SAR10 er something. Looked ok. Not too much. A little bit better than WASR. With the norinco you have to use their magazines. They are so expensive. I was checking it out.
Both my Norinco Mak90s take normal Ak magazines, I have Yugoslavian, a Romanian and hand full of others that fit and work fine, same with the NHM-91. The .223 Chinese Ak takes a hard to find expensive magazine.
Like any Ak, its trial and error in feeding and fitment for best results. thumb1
Again.. Like Power Surge ask.. What state?
Ive got a lot of time to decide which ak. I prefer the basic ones. Im a novice.
There are so many choices that it is tough to figure out.
What state are you in?
Quote from: Power Surge on January 08, 2017, 03:14:03 PM
What state are you in?
Hey PS
I dont know who reads this stuff
i dont want to get into that
Late to the thread and new to this forum. I've shot AKs and SKSs since '69 when my Dad was an instructor for Navy Seabees going in-country. AKs were awesome for the sheer rate of firepower, the SKS didn't seem as sexy. But Dad took the time to show me the quality of the SKS design versus the sheer brute utility and reliability of the AK. I first shot the AKs as a soldier working with the Phillipine government in the 70s. Shot one of the 6 or 8 SKSs I've owned in the early 2-gun matches in Florida in the late 80s...That said, The AK is the one weapon I would select above ANY other on the planet if forced to choose. The 2 SKS paras I have owned have been problematic, to say the least. Fussy in mag acceptance and somewhat prone to misfeeding if the mags aren't in the right position, I traded them away actually for regular SKS rifles. So for me, the SKS Para is an interesting version to add to a collection. But if I need enough volume of fire that mags changes are necessary, it'll be an AK...My 2 cents...
Quote from: Dragonscout on March 10, 2017, 09:46:59 PM
Late to the thread and new to this forum. I've shot AKs and SKSs since '69 when my Dad was an instructor for Navy Seabees going in-country. AKs were awesome for the sheer rate of firepower, the SKS didn't seem as sexy. But Dad took the time to show me the quality of the SKS design versus the sheer brute utility and reliability of the AK. I first shot the AKs as a soldier working with the Phillipine government in the 70s. Shot one of the 6 or 8 SKSs I've owned in the early 2-gun matches in Florida in the late 80s...That said, The AK is the one weapon I would select above ANY other on the planet if forced to choose. The 2 SKS paras I have owned have been problematic, to say the least. Fussy in mag acceptance and somewhat prone to misfeeding if the mags aren't in the right position, I traded them away actually for regular SKS rifles. So for me, the SKS Para is an interesting version to add to a collection. But if I need enough volume of fire that mags changes are necessary, it'll be an AK...My 2 cents...
What kind of SKSs did you have that had all those feed issues? Paratroopers are just regular SKSs that have cut down barrels. They still have original 10 round box mags. If you were running duckbill mags on them, then yes, those are typically problematic. If you had AK magazine model SKSs, those are not paras, they all have specific model names. And the AK mag SKSs are a bit of a pain to get the mags to lock in.