Playing off of greasemonkeys post on busting the teak myth. I'm new to the SKS line but wanting to know the specie of wood I used end grain analysis. I don't want to alter or damage my new toy so to do the least harm I pulled the recoil pad and found that the top portion under base of the spring loaded cleaning kit door was the cleanest of Cosmo staining and lightly sanded with 220 paper. Mine shows the characteristics of elm. The pores and tyloses were visible with the naked eye but I viewed it through a 16x loupe to examine closely and photograph. Examples of end grain close ups of numerous species are available if you google "wood-database". Most species include an example of end grain which is very distinct even if somewhat variable. There's all kind of speculation on the web without a lot of authority. I'd love to see someone offer photos of beech and birch for a cosmoline soaked reference. I couldn't blow the dust out of the pores with an air compressor or I could have gotten a better view. Short of spending the money on DNA analysis I'm going to run with elm on mine. Don't have a photo bucket account so I won't be able to include photos but if you check out wood- database end grain photos for elm you'll see what I'm seeing. Use the search function and you'll be good to finding beech and birch.
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg542/mwilliamspls/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160608_050318_zpsakgzikwl.jpg) (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/mwilliamspls/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160608_050318_zpsakgzikwl.jpg.html)
Might have the photo bucket going
Pretty hard for me to judge from end-grain, but it sure looks like Elm to me. Thanks for posting.
Pretty neat Matthew. I'm not a good judge of wood by any means. I've got 4 sacrificial stocks to send to the lab for testing, but have been holding off to see if I can get a very early Chinese ghost/Soviet Sino stock in the mix. Those are the ones I'm most interested in because we know there is some kind of transition going on there but really have no idea what type of wood was used. Maybe I should be on the lookout for the various types of Yugo stocks too as there are at least two of them if not three. thumb1
I've read that the Chinese stocks were catalpa but being from the Show Me state I need a little more than an uncited reference on Wikipedia. You mention testing. Have you had stocks tested before? And if so, could you share the results? I'm going to check out a 1914 Erfurt Kar98 and see what it shows. I'd like to have a non-destuctive way of narrowing down the options. I read somewhere years ago that they were beech. This one is stained brown from its stint in storage but has little visible grain.
Nope, we've never had them tested before but we have the lab identified and it's pretty much ready to go. I have 4 and LC has another 3 or 4 of varying nationalities and eras. We will be sending them to a lab soon enough I think, but have been procrastinating a bit in the hopes that a ruined early Soviet-Sino numbered stock turns up.
One other thing to look at, the Yugoslavian M24/47 and the line of M48 Mausers.. Both beech, while not as common and elm have been found as fair as I know, the Yugo Ak typically is elm as well,
Below is a few of my Yugo Mauser stocks, they vary wildly in appearance, but cut, type of elm, species, even growing conditions all effect the outcome.
I've even heard oak was used for the stocks, at least in the Mauser side.
This is what I "think" the beech stock would look kind of like, the hand guard is elm.
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/C13mechanic/Mausers/Yugo%20Mausers/HPIM1155_zps7f88b002.jpg) (http://sks-files.com/user/C13mechanic/media/Mausers/Yugo%20Mausers/HPIM1155_zps7f88b002.jpg.html)
This would be one that some would say resembles teak, but it's elm
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/C13mechanic/Mausers/Yugo%20Mausers/HPIM1123_zps7a65c9fe.jpg) (http://sks-files.com/user/C13mechanic/media/Mausers/Yugo%20Mausers/HPIM1123_zps7a65c9fe.jpg.html)
another elm stock, just lighter color.
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/C13mechanic/Mausers/Yugo%20Mausers/HPIM0909_zpsf04d95b9.jpg) (http://sks-files.com/user/C13mechanic/media/Mausers/Yugo%20Mausers/HPIM0909_zpsf04d95b9.jpg.html)
My 2 M59s have vastly different wood grains, the one is elm, the darker one could be elm as well.
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/C13mechanic/m59/m59b/SAM_0867_zps9fe9348a.jpg) (http://sks-files.com/user/C13mechanic/media/m59/m59b/SAM_0867_zps9fe9348a.jpg.html)
(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af283/C13mechanic/m59/SAM_0625_zps830fe6ef.jpg) (http://sks-files.com/user/C13mechanic/media/m59/SAM_0625_zps830fe6ef.jpg.html)
Good luck with the testing running-man. Grease monkey, great looking stocks! I hadn't thought to look into other Yugo models. My grain looks a lot like the top M59. Its "walnut colored" with long straight grain. Fun to shoot too. Wasn't too impressed with accuracy until I tried Hornady and it grouped better than I could see at 100. Next weekend I'll try 200. I started looking at the wood-database site because I don't trust the general appearance of wood grain. And truthfully I'm not very familiar with the SKS platform. Only one I've seen in a shop in a long time was a beat up Chinese one a few weeks ago. Missing the bayonet and looking like it had been left outside for the last 50 years.
Quote from: Matthew MO on June 08, 2016, 07:39:39 PM
I've read that the Chinese stocks were catalpa but being from the Show Me state I need a little more than an uncited reference on Wikipedia. You mention testing. Have you had stocks tested before? And if so, could you share the results? I'm going to check out a 1914 Erfurt Kar98 and see what it shows. I'd like to have a non-destuctive way of narrowing down the options. I read somewhere years ago that they were beech. This one is stained brown from its stint in storage but has little visible grain.
It’s Chinese name is 楸树 (qiu shu).
Catalpa is the genus of the trees. Both
C. bungei and
C. ovata are native to China. It's a widely used lumber in China.
I'll admit I'm intrigued enough that I was thinking about looking for a Chinese SKS just to get my hands on one. Was the catalpa used on just military or would commercial norincos use something different. I'm new to the SKS world but catalpa as commercial lumber product is new to me. By the way the Kar 98 end grain showed it was walnut. No surprise there.
John Galt just filled a bayo groove on a chinese using chu he found in the flooring department at Lowes. Im willing to bet most made in china furniture is the same.
Now I'm planning on hitting Lowes Monday.
Maybe it was Home Depot.... He has a thread recently here somewhere.
Seems qiu was likely used throughout production.
To your earlier comment Matthew: yes, DNA testing would be the ultimate but there isn't much DNA in wood, and in the course of extracting the DNA it's likely one would also extract inhibitors to PCR (polymerase chain reaction). PCR is used to amplify specific genes of interest for performing the phylotyping (comparing the "unknown" DNA sequence to those of known samples), such as, the ribosomal RNA genes and their internal transcribed spacer regions. Still, if I had the time and justification (funding in the area) to work on it in my lab, it would be a lot of fun to try.
Dammit Phos.... Your scaring the kids! rofl
Quote from: Loose}{Cannon on June 10, 2016, 08:11:26 PM
Dammit Phos.... Your scaring the kids! rofl
Good, my work here is done dance2 chuckles1
Thanks for the input guys. I'm no authority on wood, theses rifles or DNA. It was only after I picked up the Yugo I saw that some were made with elm. Here in MO custom walnut is as far off the reservation we go. Just came in from trying some offhand at 200 yds. Rifle is more capable than I thought or I'd have gotten one sooner. I of course need a lot more work.
I would say 99% of yugos are Elm. There are VERY few like GMs that I have seen that 'may' be a dif wood. It could also be a a simple case of cutting the log differently and a combination of all the other variables that happen within the same species.
Quote from: Matthew MO on June 10, 2016, 09:58:53 PM
Thanks for the input guys. I'm no authority on wood, theses rifles or DNA. It was only after I picked up the Yugo I saw that some were made with elm. Here in MO custom walnut is as far off the reservation we go. Just came in from trying some offhand at 200 yds. Rifle is more capable than I thought or I'd have gotten one sooner. I of course need a lot more work.
They'll suck you in...
...pretty soon, you're thinking, "I wish I would have bought two of those empty crates" think1
(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z475/phosphorus32/SKS%20Crate%201.jpg) (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/phosphorus32/media/SKS%20Crate%201.jpg.html)
Whoa...P32, post another photo like that, people might start talking about another type of "wood" :o I ain't talking about no mahogony or teak or ebony.. It's a new wood, chubby wood.. rofl2